vocal levels compared to other instruments

  • Thread starter Thread starter BassyBassyBass
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Thanks.

Yes, guitars and snare seem to be my biggest "vocal interferers"

Speaking about consonants, usually what happens is "p"s and "b"s, "m"s and "n"s get lost most of the time, while "t" and "s"s poke through pretty well. Not always, but a lot. "g"s and "k"s are also problem consonants sometimes.

I have tried hi passing and lo passing the crap out of rhythm guitars, have not tried an aggressive parametric "pocket" yet.
 
BassyBassyBass said:
guitars and snare seem to be my biggest "vocal interferers"
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Well, I don't know why the snare would interfere. Guitars can be in the way sometimes. It depends on the track. I have started using my vocals as an external key input to trigger side chain compression on troublesome guitar tracks. Makes the parts fit together like a puzzle, and you can do it live too, so it's not something a purist should criticise. Guilt free solution FTW!
 
When snare hits and "b"s or "p"s, etc. occur at the same time, they sort of cancel each other and there's a sort of percussive mush.

To answer the other question,

on vox, I have eq (hi pass for the compressor), then compressor, then another eq. Also sending vox to aux channel with gated reverb.


What is the vocal like? It is my craptacular voice "singing" in my best 80s metal imitation. Which is still not very good. Sort of a hoarse whispery screamy thing. Hard to explain.

Oh, and I'm not trying to insult anyone's intelligence here, but just so we're clear, it's not that the vocal isn't audible compared to everything else, it's intelligibility ("what is this jackass singing about?") that's the problem. I take care and try to annunciate and be clear when recording. So. . .vocal by itself: perfectly understandable. Vox and everything else = huh?
 
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BassyBassyBass said:
Thanks.

Yes, guitars and snare seem to be my biggest "vocal interferers"

Speaking about consonants, usually what happens is "p"s and "b"s, "m"s and "n"s get lost most of the time, while "t" and "s"s poke through pretty well. Not always, but a lot. "g"s and "k"s are also problem consonants sometimes.

I have tried hi passing and lo passing the crap out of rhythm guitars, have not tried an aggressive parametric "pocket" yet.
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And I take it that your using a pop filter and tilting away from the microphone while hitting the Gs, Ks, Ts and Ss ?







:cool:
 
Ohhhhhhhhh :D
Tilting your head back or to the side is all part of microphone technique and should be developed. You see singing into a microphone is an art just as playing any other instrument. ;)







:cool:
 
ya know, I always say, Kick, Bass and Vox are same level and louder than everything else. Then I listen to the Foo Fighters and the vox is buried. Hmmm....

So yeah, start with just kick, bass and vox and get them to sound great together. Then bring in everything else and keep them at lower levels. Any solo lead instruments would be at the same level as vox if they aren't competing.

When snare hits and "b"s or "p"s, etc. occur at the same time, they sort of cancel each other and there's a sort of percussive mush.
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That sounds like a final limiter kind of problem. Are ya sure you aren't squashing the mix too much? Too much limiting does weird things to snares.

Speaking about consonants, usually what happens is "p"s and "b"s, "m"s and "n"s get lost most of the time, while "t" and "s"s poke through pretty well
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I noticed that when I use an SM57/58 vs. a condensor mic. I find I have to articulate words differently with different mics. I gave up on using the SP c1 because it really accentuates my sibilance. What mic are you using??

It's not like I really know what I'mtalking about. I'm just throwing ideas out there based on similar experiences.

Good luck.
 
Is the vocal soloed by itself pristine in its intelligibility?
If the vox aren't well enunciated to start with no amount of EQ can make them highly intelligible, especially as you add more and more layers of instrumentation.

Assuming the vox are in good shape you might want to look at cutting the other mix elements in the vocal clarity regions rather than messing with the vocal itself
 
I just like to be able to concentrate and pick out the details of any instrument that I want to focus on. That usually puts everything about the same level and you get the seperation with panning and eq'ing.
I want to be able to understand what the singer(s) are saying and I want to be able to clearly hear the details of any solos. That usually puts them at a slightly higher level.
But the main thing to me isn't how loud they sit in the mix; the main thing to me is being able to distinguish the words.
 
Chili said:
ya know, I always say, Kick, Bass and Vox are same level and louder than everything else. Then I listen to the Foo Fighters and the vox is buried. Hmmm....
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Isn't buried vocal what it's all about that gender of music with the Foo Fighters as such bands around then? Always hated that. :mad:







:cool:
 
I believe its time to take this whole thread to the mp3 mix clinic.
 
I won't lie. . .I'm sure my mic technique as well as my singing suck. One would think tilting one's head away would quiet those ever important consonants, no? Is this what we want?

Yes, I think with the vocal soloed you can easily understand everything. I don't doubt the problem is other instruments. . .just have to figure out which ones and in what way. I would be happy to put an mp3 up for critique when I go as far as I can on my own with getting it "right". Right now I'm at about 80 or 90% intelligibility, but there is still more tweaking to do.

I have no limiters on anything yet. . .I'm trying a different (for me) technique this time around, bringing faders on each track down from the recording levels so everything peaks way low (again, compared to how I'm used to doing it) (-12ish), and then bring the master up when I think I'm done (I won't be doing any real mastering).

As for building the rhythm section first, yes, I've often heard this. I've also heard to start with the most important element and make everything fit around that. So this is what I'm attempting this time with vox being considered the most important thing.
 
xfinsterx said:
I believe its time to take this whole thread to the mp3 mix clinic.
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I agree too. Post your song in the clinic so we can hear where you're coming from. Put up a link in this thread so we can follow up.

cool,
 
BassyBassyBass said:
I won't lie. . .I'm sure my mic technique as well as my singing suck. One would think tilting one's head away would quiet those ever important consonants, no? Is this what we want?

Yes, I think with the vocal soloed you can easily understand everything. I don't doubt the problem is other instruments. . .just have to figure out which ones and in what way. I would be happy to put an mp3 up for critique when I go as far as I can on my own with getting it "right". Right now I'm at about 80 or 90% intelligibility, but there is still more tweaking to do.

I have no limiters on anything yet. . .I'm trying a different (for me) technique this time around, bringing faders on each track down from the recording levels so everything peaks way low (again, compared to how I'm used to doing it) (-12ish), and then bring the master up when I think I'm done (I won't be doing any real mastering).

As for building the rhythm section first, yes, I've often heard this. I've also heard to start with the most important element and make everything fit around that. So this is what I'm attempting this time with vox being considered the most important thing.
Click to expand...

oops, we posted at the same time. Sounds like you've got a plan. Good luck, have fun, let us know how you do....

cool (again)
 
Alright gents, we'll stop here and I'll take the advice you've given and do what I can with it.

I remember reading how some folks will manually gain ride vox before doing compression, eq, etc. I may try this and see if it helps.

At some point I will burn a CD and listen in the car. I already do the thing where I listen from another room so my mix room itself becomes the sound source.

I've read some folks can mix a track in 4-8 hours. It takes me two or more weeks.

So, I'll be back in a while.

Toodles!
 
I'm going to the clinic, I swear. I just gotta get it as good as I can first. Otherwise you'll be all "this shit's wrong, and that shit's wrong!" and I'll be all "I was gonna fix it but you guys insisted I come to the clinic RIGHT NOW." In other words, I'd rather have the problems I don't know about or don't have a way to resolve critiqued rather than put it out there when there's still things I can fix.
 
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