Vocal Booth In a very small apartment

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WoodStockL

WoodStockL

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Hi I would really appreciate it if you could help me with some questions about setting up a home studio

I live in an apartment building and I would like to sing at full voice so as not to disturb the neighbors. And so that my voice doesn't reflect off the walls of my apartment.

1. I have an empty closet at home the size of 80х80cm (2,6х2,6 ft), height 190cm (6,2 ft) without shelves and things(clothes), it is made of thick wooden walls of 2cm thick and I can safely stay inside.
Even without modifications, the closet isolates my sound well when I'm inside, but there is absolutely no sound absorption inside, since the walls are flat. I could make a vocal booth out of it, cover it inside with special materials, make ventilation, etc. But I'm afraid that my voice in such a small space will sound with a "box effect" or "small room effect". Although I have seen DIY vocal booths that are not much bigger than the size of my closet but they work great, like this guy's:

First video
Last video

Unfortunately, to find out if the "box effect" will be I will have to do a complete sound absorption inside closet first.
My question is, does it make sense to make a vocal booth out of this closet? The size is fine with me, I can even fit in there with a microphone stand. But I don't know how square my voice will be because of that size.

2. If the closet option cannot work under any conditions I can remove this closet and then there will be a rectangular area in my room the size of 150x85cm (4,9x2,7 ft) height 240cm (7,8 ft). In this area, I can build a rectangular vocal booth from scratch using the technology of that guy in the video at the link above.
But even with this option, I don't know if I'll get a box effect for my voice. In terms of volume, this booth would be more than the minimum required space that you indicate in the articles. But I don't know if this will be enough, because this rectangle will be quite narrow, only 85x85cm.

I understand that even in very large vocal booths there is this "voice box effect", so I don't expect the voice to sound perfect. But I've seen small versions of boxes, only 1x1 meter (3,2x3,2 ft) that sounded good. I could also use portable vocal boxes, but it is just as important to me that the neighbors hear less of my voice, so I can only use solid, thick materials.
I would be very grateful if you could tell me what to do in this situation and in my very limited space. Thank you.
 
How do you know that the vocals done in these small vocal booths is 'good'? How do you know they haven't processed them like crazy to make them sound half-decent?

Not only is 'boxiness' a problem in small spaces, but if you over-insulate (specially with foam, which only controls the high end, and in fact contributes to 'boxiness'), the sound becomes very 'dead' and you have to EQ to get a more 'normal' sound.
 
WoodStockL said:
Hi I would really appreciate it if you could help me with some questions about setting up a home studio. In terms of volume, this booth would be more than the minimum required space that you indicate in the articles. But I don't know if this will be enough, because this rectangle will be quite narrow, only 85x85cm.

I understand that even in very large vocal booths there is this "voice box effect", so I don't expect the voice to sound perfect. But I've seen small versions of boxes, only 1x1 meter (3,2x3,2 ft) that sounded good. I could also use portable vocal boxes, but it is just as important to me that the neighbors hear less of my voice, so I can only use solid, thick materials.
I would be very grateful if you could tell me what to do in this situation and in my very limited space. Thank you.
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I would not build a Vocal Booth - instead I would use a Vocal Shield and go from there. Leave the room open too.
 
mjbphotos said:
How do you know that the vocals done in these small vocal booths is 'good'? How do you know they haven't processed them like crazy to make them sound half-decent?

Not only is 'boxiness' a problem in small spaces, but if you over-insulate (specially with foam, which only controls the high end, and in fact contributes to 'boxiness'), the sound becomes very 'dead' and you have to EQ to get a more 'normal' sound.
Click to expand...
I have heard clean recordings from various people with vocal booths, these recordings were not perfect, far from perfect even, but it was much better than a voice recording just in the living room. I also do not have a goal to achieve a perfect sound, but at least a sound with which you can work plus sound isolation from the neighbors, so you can sing at full voice without fear of disturbing someone.

I completely agree with you that the problem is not only with box effect, that's why I came here for advice :)
I could have used more modern materials for the vocal booth, not necessarily just foam.
There are no vocal studios in my city where I can record and my apartment is no bigger place than the one I wrote above. So a vocal booth seems to be the only way for me to sing and not be embarrassed. I tried singing at full voice just in my living room and I could make the walls in way so there would be no reverb, but unfortunately my neighbors don't like it when I sing too loudly in my living room (even though it's not against the law).
 
Papanate said:
Well some sacrifices will have to be made...
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I'm from Russia and I think if I keep singing at full voice in my living room, I won't sacrifice my neighbors but my neighbors will sacrifice me :D
 
My smallest one was 1.7m x1m x 2.4m high. It had proper sound insulation as it was a corner of a larger room, and inside it had a bass trap and HF treatment. It sounded quite dead and was great for voice overs and overdubs for singers. It was, however, the most horrible space I have ever recorded in. It was claustrophobic, and worse - the small room made the air intake and exhaust easily audible, and with this switched off, by the end of the first take, it was lacking air, and the temperature would go up. More than two takes was uncomfortable and spending more than ten minutes was impossible.

If you are a loud singer, remember that the room will contain your voice and it will be deafening in there, and you will need decent sealing headphones.

The video is surely not serious? The construction is terrible, the sound reduction minimal, the thing is unlikely to be worth the effort of building it and you would be better making a frame and covering it in duvets - I think that would have no worse performance.

Small booths are what you build in your early projects, and NEVER repeat because they are just nasty to work in - even if you build them properly, which this man didn't!
 
rob aylestone said:
My smallest one was 1.7m x1m x 2.4m high. It had proper sound insulation as it was a corner of a larger room, and inside it had a bass trap and HF treatment. It sounded quite dead and was great for voice overs and overdubs for singers. It was, however, the most horrible space I have ever recorded in. It was claustrophobic, and worse - the small room made the air intake and exhaust easily audible, and with this switched off, by the end of the first take, it was lacking air, and the temperature would go up. More than two takes was uncomfortable and spending more than ten minutes was impossible.

If you are a loud singer, remember that the room will contain your voice and it will be deafening in there, and you will need decent sealing headphones.

The video is surely not serious? The construction is terrible, the sound reduction minimal, the thing is unlikely to be worth the effort of building it and you would be better making a frame and covering it in duvets - I think that would have no worse performance.

Small booths are what you build in your early projects, and NEVER repeat because they are just nasty to work in - even if you build them properly, which this man didn't!
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Thank you so much for your detailed comment! The booth of the guy in the video above is made very simple and not neat. He made about 5 videos about this booth in one of which he compared loud singing without it and with it. And no matter how bad it looks, it fulfills its function, soundproofing loud singing from getting it to the neighbors.
and also it's very imprecise, but it removes unnecessary reverberation when you're sing inside. For me, this functionality is the most important thing. I understand that it will be uncomfortable, cramped and stuffy inside. But I'm willing to put up with these difficulties and 15-20 minutes is enough for me to record or practice after which I could pause for 5 min and ventilate the booth.
I've also seen professionally and well-made vocal booths on sale as small as 1m x 1m 2.4m high. Maybe this size isn't so bad?

Also yesterday I made a drawing of my room and with some rearranging of furniture I could find a little more space in my apartment than my closet.
1.3m x 1.3m x 2.4m hight this is the maximum possible area I can find in my apartment that would be suitable for building a booth.
It is very important for me to understand if it makes sense to build a booth to get clean vocals without unnecessary reverb, which will later be processed and mixed with the music. But if a booth of this size is only going to ruin my voice, I'll probably give up on the idea.
 
This topic has come up here time and again, and I cannot recall one where the person came back and posted a big "SUCCESS" sign with videos and recordings demonstrating it.

It's hard enough to treat and record in a small room with good results, and that's without trying to do sound isolation. The claustrophobic descriptions make me just shake my head, and, as rob says, these experiments never get repeated. The problem of ventilation, alone, should give you pause. You cannot effectively isolate a single walled room in any kind of normal residential (vs. concrete, prison-like) construction *and* have air-flow in and out of the space.

P.S. (edit) the videos linked show a separate box, more like the room-in-a-room kind of isolation. That is not the same as using walls that are already joined to the rest of the residential area.
 
keith.rogers said:
This topic has come up here time and again, and I cannot recall one where the person came back and posted a big "SUCCESS" sign with videos and recordings demonstrating it.

It's hard enough to treat and record in a small room with good results, and that's without trying to do sound isolation. The claustrophobic descriptions make me just shake my head, and, as rob says, these experiments never get repeated. The problem of ventilation, alone, should give you pause. You cannot effectively isolate a single walled room in any kind of normal residential (vs. concrete, prison-like) construction *and* have air-flow in and out of the space.

P.S. (edit) the videos linked show a separate box, more like the room-in-a-room kind of isolation. That is not the same as using walls that are already joined to the rest of the residential area.
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Thank you for your experience! The ventilation problem doesn't seem that significant to me, as I said before, 15-20 minutes inside will be enough for me, The guy in the video said that he was quite comfortable in there for about an hour without airing, moreover, in the summer in this booth the air temperature was slightly lower than in the rest of the apartment. As for claustrophobia, it is not a problem for me at all. I understand that with a vocal booth this small, there will definitely be issues related to inconvenience of use, but these are sacrifices I am willing to make in exchange for being able to sing, not have reverberations from my walls and not disturbing my neighbors.

Speaking of sound isolation, even now if I start singing loudly inside my closet inside which there is absolutely no special sound isolation. Even then, my voice can no longer be heard almost completely in the next room. So I think that even poorly made vocal booths will isolate my voice quite well.

The only thing I'm not sure about is the quality of the voice. If a booth of about 1.3m х 1.3m x 2.4m with the use of quality sound-absorbing materials will only harm my voice and I won't get a more or less clear recording without reverberations, then it probably doesn't make sense to me.
 
And by the way, I would be happy to share with you the finished results if I started building a booth and it would come out in the end.
 
look up the figures for attenuation. then look at the gaps. I see very little reduction in volume with something as structurally inept as this! take his word at your peril! My first one was the only small one, ever! they get turned into storage every time! You don't have to believe us, we understand. They are just horrible to work in. If they seal, they get hot. How many lungs full of air? How much sweat and smell?
 
rob aylestone said:
look up the figures for attenuation. then look at the gaps. I see very little reduction in volume with something as structurally inept as this! take his word at your peril! My first one was the only small one, ever! they get turned into storage every time! You don't have to believe us, we understand. They are just horrible to work in. If they seal, they get hot. How many lungs full of air? How much sweat and smell?
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As I've written before, I'm not trying to achieve perfect soundproofing and perfect recorded voice. And I'm not going to try to replicate the vocal booth exactly according to the instructions in this video. Just like I'm not going to use ineffective materials like foam rubber.
I'm more than confident that even the most poorly made booth will reduce the volume of my voice in the apartment well enough. This is confirmed both on various forums and even in this video. In addition, I have tried singing and shouting very loudly in my regular closet which has no soundproofing, outside the closet my voice was significantly quieter.
In terms of soundproofing, this result would have been enough for me.
I understand that for professionals and those who often and professionally sing what I am talking about sounds ridiculous. And the lack of air, cramped space, claustrophobia and other inconveniences play a very significant role for such people.
For me a vocal booth is the only possible way to sing considering all the circumstances. So I'm willing to sacrifice some inconvenience in use.

The only thing stopping me from building a booth is the quality of the voice. Even with neater construction and more modern materials than in the above video, I don't know what quality the recorded voice will be. Whether the box effect will not be too strong.
From the information I found on the Internet and on forums, I often saw that people determine the minimum size of vocal booths as 1.0m x 1.0m x 2.4m height or 1.2m x 1.2m x 2.4m height. I have seen articles describing these dimensions as the minimum and even companies that make models of only 1.15m by 1.15m
 
You've made your mind up you want to do this. We get it. You can easily build a very effective booth - you just need density to prevent sound leaking out, and then sound treatment to stop it sounding like you are singing in a box. You need a door and it needs to stay shut. You can get around the hassle of hitting record then running into the booth, shutting the door, putting the headphones on and singing. You then make a mistake and go out and do it again, and again. You could record on a laptop and take it in with you if the fan is quiet, but they get hot of course.

What I am saying is yes, you can do it, but you'll hate it. Let's me generous - your booth knocks 20dB off the level. That's a fair bit. During the day you neighbour won't hear and it'll keep some road noise out too. Night time? Maybe it will be enough, maybe it won't.

I'm sure you'll just do it anyway, and were hoping we'd say great idea - but I will NEVER build another. Nobody wanted to use it - everybody hated it, and some people felt really awful in there - the small space, but absorption heavy feeling can be quite horrible - even nauseous for some. Singing in a box is very strange. I hope it goes well for you.

One of the links says "
Once you factor in the size of thick panels in the inner dimensions, you are left with very little room for a mic + stand + performer. The booth won’t be able to comfortably host a vocalist who plays the acoustic guitar simultaneously. Worse yet, it can feel constricting and claustrophobic.

In other words, don’t expect miracles from a 4’ x 4’ vocal booth with 7 to 8 feet height. Do what you may, they will never sound or feel like a proper recording room with wall/ceiling separation and acoustic treatment."

Those isorooms work really well, but they are exactly like that article says.
 
rob aylestone said:
You then make a mistake and go out and do it again, and again. You could record on a laptop and take it in with you if the fan is quiet, but they get hot of course.
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100% this. I’ve done the vocal booth thing before, too, with a closet. It sucked. But I do see you’re determined to make this happen. Just be prepared to go back and forth a lot with mistakes, or at least practice your takes a TON before you hit record. That will minimize the going back and forth at least a little.
 
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