Virtual guitar amps/analog guitar amps

I don't think there's even anywhere to go with guitar tone unless you just plop effects all over it. There really hasn't been anything new with tone since the mid/late 80s when high gain really took off and then they started scooping the mids out of it. How much more gain can one use? How clean can clean get? Even modern tube amps and modern modelers, all they do is chase the classic sounds of yesteryear. New builds from major amp manufacturers, or one-off boutique amps from small builders, it's all the same. The basics of a tube amp hasn't changed in 50+ years. The only direction to go with tone is to make a guitar not sound like a guitar, and even that's been done for decades. So what's something new and exciting? The way I see it, so many people still sound like shit out there, new and exciting can wait for just getting a good basic tone to begin with. Don't overthink it. Don't get cute. Plug a good guitar into a good amp and play well. Simple.
 
miroslav said:
That first clip has some crazy distortion in spots(0:23, 0:33, 0:52 1:08-10)....not sure what's causing it, but it almost sound like signal overload during tracking. I doubt it's the Swart, I have an SST-30 and it doesn't do that....and I don't think it's the fuzz, because it only happens in spots. Maybe the FX are being overdriven.
What is that?

That was yours truly pushing the limiter a bit too hard. Also, those are foil bucket pick ups, their voicing is wide open on the top. Combine that with some fuzz and bingo. In truth that was pushing the limiting too hatrd for volume. The Swart is amazing! A lot of the tracks he has recorded are just straight Swart, no pedals (incredible).


The second clip also has some fizzy sounding distortion that's really only noticeable when the track starts, right before the singing comes in.

I dunno....maybe you guys were going for that distortion sound in both tracks...?
Poor job of mastering.
On the last clip, the guitars sound good...crisp, clean.

Oh....you should just post the direct links to SoundCloud and skip that Facebook redirect....it generates security warnings.
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Check out my soundclick page in my sig, it has a bunch of my recordings I did in my old studio before I jumped into pro tools and my new space. I am still learning my way around my new studio. My biggest hurdle has been in pro tools. But, I am drinking milk! ; )
 
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Greg_L said:
I don't think there's even anywhere to go with guitar tone unless you just plop effects all over it. There really hasn't been anything new with tone since the mid/late 80s when high gain really took off and then they started scooping the mids out of it. How much more gain can one use? How clean can clean get? Even modern tube amps and modern modelers, all they do is chase the classic sounds of yesteryear. New builds from major amp manufacturers, or one-off boutique amps from small builders, it's all the same. The basics of a tube amp hasn't changed in 50+ years. The only direction to go with tone is to make a guitar not sound like a guitar, and even that's been done for decades. So what's something new and exciting? The way I see it, so many people still sound like shit out there, new and exciting can wait for just getting a good basic tone to begin with. Don't overthink it. Don't get cute. Plug a good guitar into a good amp and play well. Simple.
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A lot of truth in this! Tone is in the hands of the player.
 
Greg_L said:
I don't think there's even anywhere to go with guitar tone unless you just plop effects all over it. There really hasn't been anything new with tone since the mid/late 80s when high gain really took off and then they started scooping the mids out of it.

Plug a good guitar into a good amp and play well. Simple.
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Right.

Everything old is new again...it all goes around and back to where it originated from.
I love FX and there are genres that beg for guitars slathered in FX, but it's where people spend way too much time and effort trying to find a new way of doing something basic...like plugging a guitar into an amp with a mic in front of it and then just playing, because THAT seems harder for them.....so they do all that other stuff in place of it.

Again, there's legit reasons for sims....can't play loud at home, got no $$$ for decent amps/mics, no good recording space, need something special that their amp just won't do, or they need 85 different guitar tones for live use....
....but IMO, just getting good basic tones isn't and shouldn't be the main reason for sims.

I'm not totally against the use of sims....I'm even looking at a couple of software plugs myslef just to have as options, even though I'm not hurting for real amps and stomps that get me all kinds of tones....I just don't buy the arguments that amps are dying off or why some people don't seem to even try amps anymore.
 
New Guy said:
The whole thing!
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Can I assume then that you prior recording was more analog/tape/mixer/OTB in nature...?

Well....there's certainly a learning curve with any DAW, and some time to acquire a taste for working with them and the steps for getting the sounds you got before you started using them.

IMO...the best approach for DAWs, at least when starting out....is to treat them simply as a recording/capture device. Assume nothing about them or what they will do for you after the recording.
So basiclaly....get it where you want it going in....and minimize the *need* for using a lot of DAW tools.
After awhile the DAW becomes more familiar and you will naturally explore its intricacies in small steps as you work on stuff, so there isn't that steep learning curve all at once, rather small steps that happen naturally with each project.
 
ashcat_lt said:
I think if one was to poke around a bit one would find that many of the big touring acts - in all popular genres where guitars are involved - are forcing their roadies to carry the stacks on stage for looks, but actually playing into an amp modeler of some sort. How else are you going to reproduce the sound from the album?
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I'm fairly new to this entire forum but I've found some really great info on it, especially from the guy I've quoted; his posts are always spot on and extremely informative. The last band I was in was signed to Virgin Records and we did the entire Warped Tour in 2010, and I can tell you, Ashcat is spot on yet again: most of the screamo/hardcore bands on Warped that year put empty half-stack (or full-stack) speaker cabinets onstage for looks and either were running amp simulators off their sound guy's ProTools rig (as most of them used TONS of backing tracks as well) or just had a small combo amp mic'ed up and hidden behind the empty cabinets.

That being said, I don't have much experience with amp sims beyond the Line 6 simulator within Reason 7, but I can't imagine that anyone would get the same reaction onstage (or in-studio) from a sim that they would from standing in front of a good, dialed-in, cranked-up amp. (By reaction I mean from the guitar and amp, not from the crowd.) But then again, I haven't used sims really at all, so I wouldn't know for sure. I'm just going off an intuitive assumption.
 
For me, IMHO, I don't like the way sims FEEL. Also I believe allot of a guitarists tone/individuality/emotion comes from under the fingers. The few sims I have tried reduced that to a level I personally was not able to accept. That's just me. Occasionally when I am recording, dubbing in a sim for color may apply and can be a useful tool. But for any real heart-felt playing or live performance there is no place for a sim for me.
 
Greg_L said:
I don't think there's even anywhere to go with guitar tone unless you just plop effects all over it. There really hasn't been anything new with tone since the mid/late 80s when high gain really took off and then they started scooping the mids out of it. How much more gain can one use? How clean can clean get? Even modern tube amps and modern modelers, all they do is chase the classic sounds of yesteryear. New builds from major amp manufacturers, or one-off boutique amps from small builders, it's all the same. The basics of a tube amp hasn't changed in 50+ years. The only direction to go with tone is to make a guitar not sound like a guitar, and even that's been done for decades. So what's something new and exciting? The way I see it, so many people still sound like shit out there, new and exciting can wait for just getting a good basic tone to begin with. Don't overthink it. Don't get cute. Plug a good guitar into a good amp and play well. Simple.
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I think the only thing that I would consider "new" would be the DAR FBM. I don't like it personally, but it's definitely a unique sounding (and expensive) amp.
 
Pinky said:
Indeed, it's a worthy topic as I know a lot of 'old school' guitarists like me are/were hesitant to make the jump to virtualization.
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This says it all. The feeling that you are, "Making the jump" or on the crest of some new wave only means you've bought into someone's marketing spiel. Someone has sold you on the idea. To be fair that's mostly what drives forums like these.

That being said, alternative (Non amped) guitar processing has been a factor for a long time. Look at something like the Rockman line invented and marketed by Boston founder Tom Scholz. He pitched it as a Marshall in a box and it sounded good enough for him to record the Boston Third Stage album with one. And there's a thousand other examples and products. What I'm saying is there have always been ways to reduce the crap we have to carry around. Virtualization is just the latest trend... and it will come and go like the others. In the end the majority still prefer carrying around the "crap." For one thing it's part of the show... at least when it comes to rock.
 
Greg_L said:
Those things do have some cool features, but aren't they just pure "metal" amps? Like heavy heavy heavy drop-tune 8 string mega high gain chugga-djent shit?
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Never been in front of one in any capacity. I have no idea honestly. I know the FBM fortza is was built for Messhugah so it's almost comedically tight high gain chuggness. I'm pretty sure it's almost $3k if you want one. I think the regular Fortza is like $500 or so less. Although these are the prices I remember from like 3 years ago, who knows know. Their distribution is horrible.

I sort of want to try out the other DAR stuff like the smaller (and sort of more affordable) Tuzzia.
 
For me, its not about sims, or about stax, its about reproducible tone, not screwing the people in the cheap seats with short throw cabs, and not filling the front half of the room with incomprehensible mud.

You younguns keep stackin those 412s, and you have my permission to own the stage.

I'm in the board, however I feel like getting there today, make up for ridiculously inconsequential differnces in tone nobody else hears with soul and tude, sound the same live or on tape, and own the arena thru a flown array designed to crack concrete and bend steel.

Yer gonna have a hard time plugging those audions into the sidewalk, but I'll throw a $20 in yer tin cup anyway.
 
Jay Tee 4303 said:
For me, its not about sims, or about stax, its about reproducible tone, not screwing the people in the cheap seats with short throw cabs, and not filling the front half of the room with incomprehensible mud.

You younguns keep stackin those 412s, and you have my permission to own the stage.

I'm in the board, however I feel like getting there today, make up for ridiculously inconsequential differnces in tone nobody else hears with soul and tude, sound the same live or on tape, and own the arena thru a flown array designed to crack concrete and bend steel.

Yer gonna have a hard time plugging those audions into the sidewalk, but I'll throw a $20 in yer tin cup anyway.
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WTF are you rambling about? Put down the bong and try again.
 
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