Vicious dogs

The dog licence was got rid of because it was unenforceable. Laws exist already we don't need more, we need to enforce the ones that exist. All a licence would do is add a tier of bureaucracy between offenders and enforcement and penalise those that are responsible owners.
 
BroKen_H said:
Enforce the laws we have! That's what we Yanks keep saying about guns. Cain killed Abel with a rock. It's not about guns killing people any more than cars kill when their drivers are drunk or texting.
But dogs are a bit different as they are another breathing, living being. More than licensing, I think individuals should be tagged (not literally) if they do stupid things with ANY animal. Just make it to where they lose their right to own animals if they are irresponsible or what not. If they're found with an animal doing something stupid the second or third time that should be jail time.

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I'm guessing but bringing the gun debate into this will likely not be in accord with the powers that mod this place.

However most people, (not all) keep dogs as a companion or for work reasons. Hardly comparable. Having said that we have laws to cover all those situations you describe. Just recently it became illegal to own a dog and not have it micro-chipped and registered. Far better than licensing IMHO... Any animal is now traceable to it's owner who is responsible for its safe handling. Many people each year are barred from keeping animals after prosecutions brought by the RSPCA. We dont need more bureaucracy we need more efficient enforcement.
 
How is your fence constructed? Most fences are constructed so that the horizontal rails are on the inside. It provides for a good clean look on the outside, and also makes it harder to scale from the outside because the rails can't be used as an assist by an intruder in getting over into the fenced-off area. Dogs are known to use the rails to get over if they really want to get out. Pit bulls have very strong hind quarters, and can jump vertically from a stand still around 5' at the shoulder. They can get over if they wanted, especially if the rails are in place to assist.

I'm a dog person, love 'em, part of my upbringing and always have. But pits are scary as shit and I want then nowhere around me or my family. The potential is unnecessary.

Another topic, but same goes for that wolf hybrid nonsense. Had an encounter one time, but....
 
Mick Doobie said:
How is your fence constructed? Most fences are constructed so that the horizontal rails are on the inside. It provides for a good clean look on the outside, and also makes it harder to scale from the outside because the rails can't be used as an assist by an intruder in getting over into the fenced-off area. Dogs are known to use the rails to get over if they really want to get out. Pit bulls have very strong hind quarters, and can jump vertically from a stand still around 5' at the shoulder. They can get over if they wanted, especially if the rails are in place to assist.

I'm a dog person, love 'em, part of my upbringing and always have. But pits are scary as shit and I want then nowhere around me or my family. The potential is unnecessary.

Another topic, but same goes for that wolf hybrid nonsense. Had an encounter one time, but....
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It's a standard 4ft chain link. He could easily clear it, but seems pretty happy to stay put. Signs on both gates and another going up where the kids catch the bus. I've already talked to the neighborhood kids about sticking hands and fingers thru the gate

We've never hit or neglected or dogs, but I don't particularly trust the male. I think his dad might have been crazy
 
muttley600 said:
I'm guessing but bringing the gun debate into this will likely not be in accord with the powers that mod this place.

However most people, (not all) keep dogs as a companion or for work reasons. Hardly comparable. Having said that we have laws to cover all those situations you describe. Just recently it became illegal to own a dog and not have it micro-chipped and registered. Far better than licensing IMHO... Any animal is now traceable to it's owner who is responsible for its safe handling. Many people each year are barred from keeping animals after prosecutions brought by the RSPCA. We dont need more bureaucracy we need more efficient enforcement.
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The new rules are a bit odd really. Dog licensing, is a really similar political issue to gun control but for some reason people completely lose their shit over it. Another weird thing is space exploration; this isn't even a political issue, its pure science but people lose thier shit about this too, its weird.
 
JDOD said:
The new rules are a bit odd really. Dog licensing, is a really similar political issue to gun control but for some reason people completely lose their shit over it. Another weird thing is space exploration; this isn't even a political issue, its pure science but people lose thier shit about this too, its weird.
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Are you being serious? Thats just ridiculous....
 
muttley600 said:
Are you being serious? Thats just ridiculous....
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LOL, I don't mean that dogs and guns are similar! I mean the issue of what you are and aren't allowed to own, ownership responsibility and the extent of state interferance in it brings up a lot of similar questions!
 
JDOD said:
LOL, I don't mean that dogs and guns are similar! I mean the issue of what you are and aren't allowed to own, ownership responsibility and the extent of state interferance in it brings up a lot of similar questions!
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No it doesn't.

There is pretty much 100% support behind gun legislation in this country regardless of political allegiance. I don't recall a single politician championing the return of dog licences in a similar fashion.

We have laws to regulate ownership of guns and dogs. They are well considered and appropriate. In the case of dog ownership they need to be enforced when breached.

To recap.

Dog licensing was abolished as it was unenforceable.
Compulsory micro-chipping of dogs has been introduced as a far more effective replacement.

We don't need more bureaucracy we need better enforcement.

If you want to own a gun you can. You need to be vetted and a licence.
If you want to own a dog you can. You need to get it chipped and registered.

If you want to own a TV you have to get a licence. It's enforced if you dont.
If you want to own a car on a public road or byway you need to tax it. You dont need a licence unless you want to drive it.

Each law is appropriate to its aims and enforcement. Bringing back dog licences would achieve nothing.
 
Well spotted! That's her favourite spot she would sit there all day looking for Nessie :)

I wish there was a way to mandate responsible pet care but unfortunately the only ones who would abide by it are the ones who do already.

I would lifetime ban anyone who has been convicted of animal cruelty.
 
mjbphotos said:
Around here the shelters get references and check your living situation before letting you adopt. Stores and backyard breeders don't, of course.

To the OP: Put up 'Beware of dogs/Enter at own risk' signs on your fence.
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A "beware of dog" sign is a very bad idea. It's basically an acknowledgement that you know full well that you dog is dangerous. If someone gets bit...friend or foe...that sign undermines your defense against a lawsuit. A simple "no trespassing" sign is much better.
 
While I agree somewhat that a dog is the product of how it is raised by its owner, I disagree that breed has nothing to do with agression. Pit bulls, terriers, dobermans, German sheperds, and Akita were bred to be agressive. That was the direct intent of creating the breed. In the case of pit bulls and akitas, those breeds were created for the sole purpose of being fighting dogs. You will have some mellow dogs within those breeds, much the same way you will have agressive dogs in breeds like beagle, hound, or retrievers.
But, agression is breed into these pit bulls, akitas sheperds, and terriers....there is no getting around it. The owners can train them to go against their nature and be docile or they can encourage them to follow their aggressive nature.
But, no matter how docile you train a pit bull to be, it is by nature, an agressive dog and one day may snap and rip a child's face off.
 
jimistone said:
While I agree somewhat that a dog is the product of how it is raised by its owner, I disagree that breed has nothing to do with agression. Pit bulls, terriers, dobermans, German sheperds, and Akita were bred to be agressive. That was the direct intent of creating the breed. In the case of pit bulls and akitas, those breeds were created for the sole purpose of being fighting dogs. You will have some mellow dogs within those breeds, much the same way you will have agressive dogs in breeds like beagle, hound, or retrievers.
But, agression is breed into these pit bulls, akitas sheperds, and terriers....there is no getting around it. The owners can train them to go against their nature and be docile or they can encourage them to follow their aggressive nature.
But, no matter how docile you train a pit bull to be, it is by nature, an agressive dog and one day may snap and rip a child's face off.
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Akitas were breed as hunting dogs not fighting dogs. They have been crossed outside of Japan to introduce fighting dogs. Mostly with Mastifs, German Shepherds were breed as working herding dogs. They are intensely loyal and will generally only show aggression if trained to do so or if their territory or those in its environs are under threat. Most dogs do that to some degree. You can not list "Terrier" as a single breed (except to describe an unknown cross). There are many different breed types, temperaments and characteristics with the class.

I have had terriers of various breed and many GSD over the years as well as cross of each. Currently I have a GSD cross and it is the least aggressive dog you could ever meet. The Husky bull breed cross is far more edgy... Thats the bull breed coming through. Both were breed as sled dogs. Neither are naturally aggressive nor are their breed pedigree..
 
The breed might originally have been created for fighting, but you can bet the reputable breeders select for temperament and have been doing it for a lot of dog generations. No way would they want to breed and sell dogs that show uncontrolled aggression. Your backyard pit bull breeder down the street, that's a different story. Most of those jerks shouldn't own, much less breed dogs.
 
muttley600 said:
Akitas were breed as hunting dogs not fighting dogs. They have been crossed outside of Japan to introduce fighting dogs. Mostly with Mastifs, German Shepherds were breed as working herding dogs. They are intensely loyal and will generally only show aggression if trained to do so or if their territory or those in its environs are under threat. Most dogs do that to some degree. You can not list "Terrier" as a single breed (except to describe an unknown cross). There are many different breed types, temperaments and characteristics with the class.

I have had terriers of various breed and many GSD over the years as well as cross of each. Currently I have a GSD cross and it is the least aggressive dog you could ever meet. The Husky bull breed cross is far more edgy... Thats the bull breed coming through. Both were breed as sled dogs. Neither are naturally aggressive nor are their breed pedigree..
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when I say "Terriers" I mean Bull Terriers. I should have been specific I guess. You are correct that german shepherds were not originally bred to be aggressive dogs....they were bred to herd sheep. However, the Nazis figured out that these dogs could be trained to be highly agressive and they put that to use. That is what really introduced the breed to much of the world. They are probably the number one breed of dog used as attack dogs.

Anyway....MY POINT...was that agressive breeds will be agressive by nature. Agressive breeds are far more likely to mawl a child or attack someone you don't want attacked. All one has to do is look it up. Most attacks are pit bulls, akitas, dobermans, German shepards...so on and so forth.

That being said, I am against laws that prevent people from owning agressive breeds of dogs.
I'm also against laws that prevent me from putting a 30.06 bullet through ones brain if it wanders on my property.
 
Back in the late 1970's my best friend, and next door neighbor, had a pit bull. The dog used to ride in the back of his truck and went everywhere with us. My friend worked 30 days on and 30 days off on the riverboat and when he was gone the dog (doobie) would see me walking towards my pickup....he would run jump in the back. I never shooed him out and pretty much everywhere I went doobie was in the back of my truck. I loved that pit bull dog. I went to bars, fairs, fishing holes, stores....you name it. That dog never showed agression towards anyone, but he was big and a lot of folk were frightened by him. That being said I saw him whip the fuck out of German shepards, Other pits, akitas....you name it. I never saw another dog that could get the better of him. He killed a huge doberman. That dog would do anything I told him to except for one thing....
When he locked up with another dog I couldn't call him off. He went into another zone that I wasn't part of. I realize now that if he had ever got on a human being it would have be over with.
Looking back, I was crazy having that dog riding the roads with me and I wouldn't do it now...no way.

Like I said before, no matter how docile these pits are....that savage agression in there just beneath the surface. It's who they are.
 
In years past dogs and attacks were kind of just accepted as ..well damn that sucks but shit happens...The owner of the dog might have to pay for medical bills etc. Today it is serious shit as in the case of the Cali dude who was convicted of second degree murder and sentenced to 15 years for his pits killing a woman.

Here's the story

We just had a 62 year old woman tore up by 3 german shepards in my town about a month ago...The owner is going to get a big spankin.

here's that story

I have to admit I inherited a Rhosedsian Ridgeback that was a bad ass..It was my inlaws and they couldn't handle him and were going to have him put down... I gave in and gave him a reprieve... Damn dog liked getting out and killing cats and terrorizing people.. NOT COOL! I electrified my fence to keep the dumb shit in...still on occassion he'd get out when Fifi was in heat..

I was lucky that no one ever got hurt..

I was just watching a video of that dude they call the Lion whisperer..That guy has figured out how to hang out with lion prides and Hyena packs...Crazy shit... those animals could kill him in a heartbeat and there he is hangin with em scratching their backs..

It just shows any animal can be peaceful and fun loving if approached and handled properly...conversely a full sized dog of any breed can dish out lethal bites if so inclined and if you're not an animal expert you can be the recipient.

No more big dogs for us...more responsibility than I want to deal with with my little grand kids hanging out.. The neighbor across the street has two pits, Fricking hate when they are banging against the security screen door of his shack as I'm loading my grandkids in the car...a very uncomfortable feeling..kind of makes me want to be packing as I'm loading them in...Definitely don't feel comfortable with them playing in the front yard..

Loved having the big dogs growing up and earlier in life but my perspective has changed and no more big ass dogs for us.
 
jimistone said:
Anyway....MY POINT...was that agressive breeds will be agressive by nature. Agressive breeds are far more likely to mawl a child or attack someone you don't want attacked. All one has to do is look it up. Most attacks are pit bulls, akitas, dobermans, German shepards...so on and so forth.
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Exactly right. Pit bulls have been bred for hundreds of years to fight other animals and other dogs. The strongest/most aggressive dogs were kept and studded while the weaker/less aggressive dogs were killed and their DNA went with them.

Having a super duper owner may overcome that, but it bugs the shit out me when people pretend the predisposition doesn't exist, and that it isn't genetic.
 
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