VF80/mic/preamp help

S

sparadiddle

New member
Hi All,

I had been contemplating buying a MR8 (I'm on a tight budget, but who isn't), but after reading the archives in this board as well as the MR8 manual, I decided that I needed a little more, but still something in the budget range. Hence, I'm now considering the VF80.

First things first. I'll mostly be recording solo acoustic guitar (a Martin D-1, nothing fancy), as well as acoustic guitar/pennywhistle and possibly synth. I have almost no gear other than the Martin. I do have a set of Bose stereo speakers and an old stereo amp, and a few Boss guitar effects (including a compressor). I won't be doing any mixing on a PC/Mac (another reason I chose not to get the MR8).

Now on to the questions...

For decent yet inexpensive mics, I've seen mention of both the Studio Projects B1 and the MXL603. As I noted, I'll only be recording acoustic instruments, not vocals. Pros/cons between these two mics? I would like to get two of whichever I end up buying.

I get the impression that the pres on the VF80 or -160 aren't the greatest, but better than what's on the MR8. I see from the archives that the Studio Projects VTB1 is highly recommended. If I buy either a preamp or a mixer (but not both right now), is the preamp the better choice? I don't need to record more than two tracks at once, though something a little better than 2-band EQ would be nice, though not nec.

Compression...how's the compressor on the VF80? Is it worth buying an outboard compressor, or can I get by with the one w/ the VF80 (or the Boss pedal I already own)? I think I read somewhere not to buy the Alesis 3630. Any suggestions?

I don't own any multi-effects, but I'm assuming I can get by with the VF80 built-ins.

All that leaves is some headphones...probably not going to go to expensive on these at first...maybe something like the AKC K-66.

If I can get by without an outboard compressor and preamp with the VF-160, then I may buy that, but if I do need those items, then I'll have to stick with the VF80. Once again, I'll mostly be doing solo acoustic guitar, so I don't nec. need 16 tracks.

Thanks...
 
I am doing similar recording to what you'll be doing - acoustic guitars with a few overdubs of other instruments/vocals. I have a VF80, DMP-3 preamp, one MXL 67G, and 2 MXL 603s. I really like the DMP-3 and 603 combo for acoustic, though I mostly went on researching this and other forums rather than extensive A/B testing. It sounds great to my ears, however, and I trust the many people who have posted about the value of these budget pres/mics delivering good sound.

As far as actually needing the DMP-3 vs. just the pres in the Fostex - my gut feeling is that it makes an audible difference. I haven't actually tried just the VF80s pres, but tomorrow I'll be messing around and I'll do a A/B comparision between the two and post my thoughts.

Compressor - I don't have an outboard one and don't have any info to give you about the VF80's yet, I still haven't had time to actually burn a disc yet (it's a mastering effect, I think).

I thought about a mixer as well, but figured the DMP-3 would deliver better sound quality for the 2 channels, which is really all I need to use at a time (stereo micing). Others may chime in and say more...
 
A few thoughts... having owned a VF80 (now a VF160) along with 2 VTB1's and 2 B1's. I really like the VF series. Well-built, well thought out, rarely freeze up, etc...

The VF80 compressor is only active on final mastering and you have to be careful on using the gain because like all compressors it will add noise during quiet passages. I have a FMR-Audio RNC (compressor). It's nice if you need it.

I like the VF preamps and think the difference between them and the VTB1 is subtle. The VTB1 pres are great and quiet and offer the option of adding tube "warmth" (without adding noise!). But I must say that my musician son likes the pres on the VF's too and doesn't hear a difference!

My bias is that when using the VTB1 or DMP3 or other external pres the diiferences would be there if doing an instant A/B comparison, but almost indiscernable when heard without intense comparison. If you listen to the comparisons done by PMI audio using VTB1's, B1's and then some VERY high end pres/mics, the differences are VERY subtle, and VERY subjective as to which is "better".

I really doubt that if you make a beautiful song on a VF80, using internal pres, that anyone would say, "Man that's a great song, but the pres really ruin it!"

As to the VF80 effects, I like them so long as they're not overused. The VF80 has specific guitar effects my son liked alot, but I can't comment.

Check back over this forum. In the last month someone posted a song (female vocalist/acoustic guitar) done only on a VF80. Fantastic.

On the VF80 tracks 1-6 are mixed down to 7/8 for a final stereo master, or to ping-pong back to 1-2, thus freeing up 3-6 for more recording. From what you say, the VF80 should meet your needs. My bias is to get it with the CDR built-in. It's a VERY accurate burner. In the many discs I burned on it, nary one skip, ever...

I moved on to a VF160 because I needed more tracks, though the VF80 was/is a great machine, and has mic/guitar effects the VF160 doesn't. The VF160 has two effects chips, thus you can apply two at once to a given track...

I could go on and on! Better stop.
 
Do a search on the Fostex forum for post by: bdbdbucksKID Her last two song postings give a great insight into what a VF80 can do.
 
Thanks all...

Yeah, I've heard one of the posted songs and thought it sounded very good.

Hmmm, last night (after having to buy both a new dishwasher and a clothes dryer) I almost talked myself back into the MR8. I have to remind myself that I don't have to get it all now, just enough to have get me started.

OK...I definitely need mics, stands, and phones.

So basically the choice is VF80 and no preamp/mixer/multi-effects or MR8 and a preamp (or mixer) and maybe a midiverb or something. Actually, I do have access to a laptop with Sonar, but I'm not sure for how long, so I could do final mixing there for a while.

As far as compressor, I was curious about recording an acoustic. Is it common to use a compressor on the track while recording, or is it more common to use the compressor during mix or mastering?

slide_blues...I'll look forward to your report :)

Thanks again.
 
OK, I did an A/B test tonight using just one acoustic guitar in stereo using the 2 MXL603s. The verdict? They were very similar, and like billisa said, you do have to listen closely to hear the difference. There seemed to be a bit more high and low end coming through using the DMP-3, but the difference was slight.

The other thing is that the pres on the VF80 ramped up quickly near the end of the travel of the knob towards the "mic" side. In other words, it was a bit difficult to find the right level to get a hot signal but also to avoid clipping (digital is harsh when it goes beyond peak level). I found with this test that I couldn't just set the VF80's pres to max level, they would clip, so I had to back them off just a bit without losing too much gain. It took a bit of fooling around, but I did get them set to just shy of peak level.

The DMP-3 is much more gradual as you increase the gain and is very easy to get a hot signal backed off just enough to avoid clipping. Now, to qualify, I was playing acoustic guitar, which can have large jumps in volume depending on how hard you're hitting the strings. I was also micing fairly close to the guitar - about 12" or so.

Another advantage of the DMP-3 is that it has a low cut filter for everything below 75Hz, not sure if you can make the VF80 do the same thing - I don't think so as the low eq only goes down to 400Hz?

So I guess the question of "is it worth it" to get an external pre is open to question. Actually, I'm questioning it myself and may end up selling the DMP-3, not sure yet. There was a bit more high end "presence" with the DMP-3. I'll do more comparing, but I tend agree with billisa that it's a small improvement and you might be better off spending the money elsewhere.

As far as compression goes, I'm not sure that most people compress as they track. It's good to have the choice later on during mixdown as to how much compression you add, if any. Hope this helps you a bit.
 
I reread a bunch of threads on mic pres here and on harmony central, and have a couple of comments to make:

Many people mentioned that the differences in mic pres may not be huge comparing one track to another, but as you overdub more tracks, the difference in clarity of the overall mix becomes easier to hear when using better mic pres.

The other thing is that my comparision should be taken with a grain of salt as it was only one acoustic guitar recorded in stereo - no vocals or anything else. Not to mention that I'm no expert on any of this, just another recording newbie that is amazed by the affordability and quality available to the average person these days!
 
Thanks slide_blues!

I ordered a pair of MXL603s yesterday, but I'm still figuring out what I'm going to do otherwise.

Truthfully, at the moment I leaning towards the DMP-3 and the MR8, since the majority of what I'll be doing is solo acoustic. Right now I'm setting up Sonar on a laptop and seeing how well that's going to work. I would like to have something simple like a MR8 even if I had a VF80 (or -160). Never-the-less, I'm going to buy everything else in the next day or two.

Question for those who use the MR8 and mix on a PC (n-tracks, sonar, calkwalk, etc.)...do you bounce back the MR8 after the mix to do the mastering?

Thanks.
 
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