VF16 finally seen and heard. IMPRESSIVE!

  • Thread starter Thread starter Cratinus
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the AUX send(s) on the VF16 is/are available via a SINGLE "TRS" phono jack (a "stereo" jack). you will need a handy-dandy "stereo Y-cable" to access the TWO sends on this jack ("tip" for one send and "ring" for the other. i can't remember which is which but there was a small diagram on the back panel NEAR the jack). simply feed the two single ends of the "Y-cable" into EITHER a true stereo processor or TWO SEPERATE effects processors. some effects units can accept a "mono" signal and effect it into a "stereo" signal (via delays and stereo reverb and such). other processors can take two SEPERATE intputs and process each signal SEPERATELY (but simultaneously) and send them BOTH through the L/R outputs of the unit (aka: Lexicon MPX100 and MPX500 among others). with the TRS (tip/ring/sleeve) send(s) on the VF16 you could route (for example) track 7 to AUX1 (and to a delay unit) and track 8 to AUX2 (and to a reverb unit). if you had a STEREO SUBMIX on tracks 7/8 (say a "panned drum submix") you could send track 7 to AUX1 and track 8 to AUX2. route the two ends of the TRS "y-cable" to the L/R inputs of a TRUE STEREO reverb and you can have an "ACCURATELY reverbed" drum submix. IN ALL CASES the effects outputs are routed BACK to the VF16 inputs. I AM ASSUMING (and HOPING,..because i HAVEN'T read the manual) that it IS POSSIBLE to play back 16 RECORDED tracks and STILL HEAR sound-sources that are plugged into the inputs on the top of the unit. if this is NOT POSSIBLE then my theory is hereby "shot to hell" and i resign myself to a public lyching
and subsequent humiliation. i think (or at least HOPE) i'm right, however.
Cheers,
Cratinus
 
in case you are wondering what a "Public Lyching" is,...well it is simply a MISSPELLED "PUBLIC LYNCHING". please keep the torment and rock-throwing to a minimum. cheers.
 
Relax Cratinus, you've been such an excellent source of info, I don't think we'll worry about mis-spelled words.

Their system doesn't exactly sound like the best... can a track have more than one effect on it at the same time, either internal or external?

Also, I saw a Canadian Press Release for the VF-16, and it was talking about graphic waveform editing. Is this true? Can the VF16 do that type of editing?

thanks again!
 
there is a "screen" (accessible by a SINGLE button push....wait,...not sure if "shift" key is involved here..but ANYWAY) that instantly shows the AUX/EFFECTS routing of each specified channel. this screen shows the amount of THAT tracks' signal that goes to AUX1, AUX2, EFFECT1 and EFFECT2 (the "auxes" being EXTERNAL and the "effects" being INTERNAL). i DO BELIEVE that you can route a SINGLE channel to ALL 4 destinations (or ANY combination of the above). if you couple this with the channel inserts and the "assignable" compressor ("track exchange" possibly coming in handy here)you have MASSIVE flexibility in signal routing. nothing on the market offers this that i've seen(especially for the price....the only other unit offering MORE flexibility appears to be the "Holy Grail of Recorders": the soon-to-be-released Yamaha AW4416....just in case you're wondering, BASE price on that baby is about $2,700,..with NO hard drive).
there is ALSO a "scrub" button on the VF16. when this is pushed you are asked to specify a track. this produces a "graphic wave form" of SAID track on the display. rotating the "data" wheel will churn you through the selected track. it is NOT a "real time" waveform as the "play" button appears to be disabled at this point,..but seems to be quite useable. the graphic wave display looks about the same (or as good as) the wave displays on the latest DPS or VS recorders. as far as actually "performing" the edits,..
well,..i don't know how "in depth" the features on the VF16 get,..but the "usual" cut/clip/paste/trim abilities all "seem" to be present.
Cheers,
Cratinus

p.s. has anyone seen the VF16 for LESS than $1,099??? i believe that American Musical Supply has them for that price.
 
i am STETCHING my "photographic memory" and "hands-on recall" (concerning the VF16) to the MAXIMUM limits of my smallish brain. i don't OWN one of these units yet,..but am thoroughly impressed by the "bang for the buck" features of it. if i MIS-STATE myself i would hope that current VF16 owners would correct my posted blunders. cheers again cos' this is a GOOD list to hang around.
 
there i go again with my Godawful spelling...
....STRETCHING (not "STETCHING").....man,...
i need to hire a new editor.
 
Good list indeed! This forum may have saved me almost a $1000!! I am comparing the Fostex with the Akai DPS16, and for the price/features, the Fostex wins easily.

The lowest price I've seen it for so far is 1099 as well. Let me know if you find anything lower. Of course, I'll have to unload my SONY MD mdm-mkII first, but so it goes…

As for the spelling? Really, don't worry about it. The amount of info you've been able to provide has long since made me ignore typo's… besides, I can't spell for crap either.
 
Several questions for those of you who own a VF-16.

Everyone seems to agree that you can route data through the SCSI port to a ZIP drive. Anyone know if you can also use the SCSI port to route data to a stand-alone CDRW?

Do you have to format a ZIP disk from the VF-16? If so, and yes I know this may be a foolish question, can you "format" a CD in such a way that it can hold back-up data? My worry here is just that a 250 ZIP disk will not hold enough data. I considered a JAZ drive, but have been told that JAZ disks too often go bad. (Anyone else heard this?)
 
yah know,..i've always admired the apparent "honesty" of FOSTEX. this (VF16) isn't a 24bit/96khz recorder. it doesn't claim to be. IN FACT,..MOST recorders that offer those specs ONLY OFFER THEM ON HALF OF THE NORMAL RECORDING CAPACITY OF THAT UNIT (i.e. "8" of the 16 or "12" of the 24 "AVAILABLE" tracks are available at 24/96 resolution. for a home recording enthusiast/hobby-ist,..it ISN'T that important. i'd RATHER have 16 SEPERATE tracks of "cd-quality" audio and a few extra bucks in my pocket than a twice or THRICE expensive recorder that compromises itself for "higher fidelity". SURE,..if i had unlimited funds,..i'd comprise a system consisting of a mega-powerful PC with umpteen megs of RAM and a superhuge "pro tools-ish" software/hardware package. BUT,..currently i DON'T have those resources. UNTIL then i'll opt for the best expense for my "hard earned dollar". it "appears" to be the VF16.
Cheers,
Cratinus
p.s. i AM NOT a Fostex employee or a Fostex rep. i call it like i see it. Fostex has ALWAYS seemed to take the considerations of the "home recording enthusiast" to heart WITHOUT ASSUMING THAT WE ARE ALL COMPLETE IDIOTS. the VF16 (like the FD-series) seems well constructed, easy to use and quite flexible,..BUT,..more importantly,..it is VERY AFFORDABLE.
 
I have been looking at buying a new recording unit for some time . I am currently using a 16bit Fostex FD4 and I too had been worried about being left in the stone ages when all the 24 bit recorders started popping up everywhere.
A friend of mine just bought a new Boss BR-8 24 bit recorder and just for a " real world " test , we decided to cut some tracks of identical material using the same mics and instruments and everything. We used no EQ or effects to " dress-up " the material at ALL.
When it was all said and done and mixed down to quality high-bias tape , NO ONE could tell the difference.
I had been thinkin of waitin for the Holy Grail Yamaha AW4416 but in all reality , I just dont NEED everything that it will do. It would be nice but not three-thousand-dollar nice.
I think im gonna grab me a VF16 and be happy!
I found em at www.fullcompass.com for $992 .
Later !
 
Hate to say this, Tcnort, but I am 99.999% certain that the Boss Br-8 is NOT a 24-bit recorder, but only 16-bit.

To me, anyway, 24 bit recorders sound "smoother", almost as if your brain doesn't have to work as hard to fill in all the "gaps" left in the sound wave of a 16-bit recorder.

But no, I can't afford a 24-bit recorder either!

Good luck with your purchase.
 
"SURE,..if i had unlimited funds,..i'd comprise a system consisting of a mega-powerful PC with umpteen megs of RAM and a superhuge "pro tools-ish" software/hardware package. BUT,..currently i DON'T have those resources. UNTIL then i'll opt for the best expense for my "hard earned dollar". it "appears" to be the VF16."

I have never used the VF-16, but i have used the fd-8 with a 4 gig hd. I just sold it. It cost me $850 new. The concept that using a PC to record is too expensive is a myth. I just bought the seasound solo ex for $450. It has 2 24 bit mic pre-amps that were designed by Tom Oberheim. It comes with Cubasis VST and an entry level version of Acid. I have a 266 Mhz Celeron PC with 128 megs of ram. My point is this: After using the Fostex for 6 months, and using the Seasound for about two weeks, the Fostex does not even come close to the sonic quality or ease of use. I realize that the VF-16 smokes the FD-8, but i also realize that the VF-16 costs over $1,000. All in one recording solutions are great, but to say it's too expensive to use a PC based system is wrong.


[This message has been edited by Pavlos (edited 07-28-2000).]
 
Pavlos, perhaps you are right. since i made that post i've done a little bit of investigating into PC based recording. i've seen several systems that seem to be quite affordable. i don't know. maybe i'm just foolish for trying to keep MY crotchety old PC out of my recording space. oh well,...it's possible that i just yearn for the simplicity that i used to have with my sonically inferior "4-track cassette" studio accompanied by my ONE reverb unit. i listen to those old recordings sometimes and swear that some of them were my best,..just "MAKING DO" with what i had,..just knobs and faders and "play" and "record" buttons. i "think" i see an "improved" version of that "simplicity and bliss" in the VF16. computer based systems (with adequately powerful computers) are CERTAINLY going to become the method of choice for ALL of us at some point,....i'm just holding out for a bit longer. cheers.
 
I for one, lean away from PC based recording only because I'm in front of one all day long.. I'd hate to have to come home and work on another, even if it was for something I enjoyed.

As for the bit difference, the BR-8 is a 24 bit machine..EXCEPT when you use the Line Inputs or do two track recording at the same time, then it drops to 20-bit (per their manual, I own a BR-8) However, even at the higher bit rate, the BR-8 does use some of Boss's compression algorithms when it records. Not a huge deal, but as I just ordered the VF-16, I am looking forward to 16 tracks of uncompressed recording... and with way more insert and effects options!
www.mp3.com/merrycherry was recorded entirely on the BR-8 if you want to hear for yourself the sound it can do.

Soon as I get the VF-16 up and running, I'll post those songs up too for you all to listen to. Then you really will be able to do a side by side of 16 bit vs 24 bit.
 
I can't believe anyone can even compare the Boss BR8 to the Fostex VF16. The Boss only records on 2 tracks at a time vs. 8 on the VF16. The automatic mixing potential of the Fostex is so easy to use, especially if you have sequencing experience....it's similar to setting up a tempo map in a hardware sequencer. 16 tracks vs. 8, big hard drive, etc. The Boss unit is great for what it does and there is a lot to be said for it's simplicity.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cratinus:
the AUX send(s) on the VF16 is/are available via a SINGLE "TRS" phono jack (a "stereo" jack). you will need a handy-dandy "stereo Y-cable" to access the TWO sends on this jack ("tip" for one send and "ring" for the other. i can't remember which is which but there was a small diagram on the back panel NEAR the jack). simply feed the two single ends of the "Y-cable" into EITHER a true stereo processor or TWO SEPERATE effects processors. some effects units can accept a "mono" signal and effect it into a "stereo" signal (via delays and stereo reverb and such). other processors can take two SEPERATE intputs and process each signal SEPERATELY (but simultaneously) and send them BOTH through the L/R outputs of the unit (aka: Lexicon MPX100 and MPX500 among others). with the TRS (tip/ring/sleeve) send(s) on the VF16 you could route (for example) track 7 to AUX1 (and to a delay unit) and track 8 to AUX2 (and to a reverb unit). if you had a STEREO SUBMIX on tracks 7/8 (say a "panned drum submix") you could send track 7 to AUX1 and track 8 to AUX2. route the two ends of the TRS "y-cable" to the L/R inputs of a TRUE STEREO reverb and you can have an "ACCURATELY reverbed" drum submix. IN ALL CASES the effects outputs are routed BACK to the VF16 inputs. I AM ASSUMING (and HOPING,..because i HAVEN'T read the manual) that it IS POSSIBLE to play back 16 RECORDED tracks and STILL HEAR sound-sources that are plugged into the inputs on the top of the unit. if this is NOT POSSIBLE then my theory is hereby "shot to hell" and i resign myself to a public lyching
and subsequent humiliation. i think (or at least HOPE) i'm right, however.
Cheers,
Cratinus<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi guys. Have a VF-16 Since last week. Adat input works fine. is fixed to sending on ch 9-16 though. Find good quality.
points that played in favor for selection:
- looked for tool that i could use in stand alone AND with PC-recording (CUbase). I already invested in PC and cards ... . I find that editng is still easier on PC.

In favor:
- It records in WAV ( or rather exports) so you can export it to cubase
- it has ADAT intf, so i can send it to my adat computer card or my KORG 168RC (digital desk with 8 analog and 16 adat channels) - this means i can use 16 simultaneous analog inputs to record direct to computer OR Fostex. This is a product that can integrate with PC as no other standalone can as far as i'm aware at this price range. Only yamaha AW or Roland 1880 with extra intf card might be able to.
- 16 channel record for a price where others allow 2 to 8 channels

Against:
- effects are for 95% reverb
- track assignment is somewhat hardcoded, unless you ping pong with 8 virtual tracks
- I have the impression that you cannot have 16 recorded channels mix with 8 inputs to create 24 track mix - but need to test this still
- it seems to record 16 bit with 20 and 24 bit convertors - Korg D16 has 24 bit rec. have no experience to judge the extend of this though and for my ears vf-16 sound brilliant.
- there is no real group/buss system in realtime. the bussrecord seems as a ping-pong record from source to new track whre you can add effects or use it for mixdown. My Korg 168 desk allows to route input tracks to groups and apply effects to the group and then send it to disk-track to record/play all in realtime. Then again i did not find this feature in D16. don't know on VS880 group of products.

What i'm looking for:
- how does mix automation work - where can i find midi info on this - i expect it is too early to expect a VF-16 computer editor based on midi interface.
- how does PC - VF16 hookup work. Disk in VF-16 is in Master mode. This should conflict with computer master disk. Will test it eventually - but might means that direct scsi link to PC is not feasable.
- experiment with buss recording mode. Manual is really unclear. some of the english is uncomprehensable - lucky the project example is clear.
that's it for now great to have found a VF-16 usergroup. Fostex site is none-existing no FAQ, no freeware ...

johan
 
OK - I'm right on the verge of buying a VF-16. It seems to be the best balance of features and price for current digital multitracks. But, I'd really like some more specific info on the EFFECTS. Tons of reverbs, I know. How do they sound? And, maybe more important, how's the chorus, doubling, pitch shift, flange????
 
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