VF16 finally seen and heard. IMPRESSIVE!

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Cratinus

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my local "megastore" finally got the Fostex VF16 in stock. in fact, there was a small stack of VF16 boxes on their sales floor but none were on display yet. with permission i opened the first one and plugged it in. it seemed a VERY solid unit with its sturdy metal chassis and the faders are MUCH improved over the FD series recorders. i must confess that the new "blackish-gray" color scheme is much more appealing to the eye than the sterile white packaging that Fostex is known for. the display was a bit small (but no smaller than the FD-8) but seemed to be much more detailed with improved graphics over the FD series. everything seemed to be laid out in a VERY logical fashion. most of the buttons have lights which become illuminated when a particular fuction is being addressed. you can EASILY access dedicated screens which show the pan, fader value, effects/aux sends and eq for each channel. it's a cinch, really. ANYWAY,...i plugged it in and waited for the demo song to load. then i hit play. i couldn't believe what i was seeing/hearing!!!tracks were muting/un-muting at appropriate moments, pan changes occured at certain intervals,..... the sound was BEAUTIFUL!!.....i tweaked some EQ,...it sounded VERY NATURAL (fyi...hi/mid bands are parametric and low is shelving. it sounded GREAT). it was the automatic SCENE RECALL (99 changes are available) which is MOST IMPRESSIVE. this could easily enable some very detailed mixdowns! from what i could tell (via my 30 minutes of "twiddling") EACH channel has access to the TWO onboard effects processors and TWO external sends (available on the back panel on ONE TRS 1/4" jack). the routing is available via a single "easily accesible" screen. i assume that one would feed the external effects back into one or two of the 8 inputs on top. there is a sperate EQ and Compressor for the MASTER stereo mix. the extra "assignable" compressor seemed to be available ONLY for tracks 13/14 or 15/16. HOWEVER,..THIS IS NO PROBLEM WHATSOEVER as you can exchange ANY track(s) (including virtual) with ANY OTHER track(s). this is an EXTREMELY flexible setup! i believe you can either send a stereo mix through the optical output OR any designated 8 tracks (via ADAT protocol) but i'm not entirely certain. at any rate, the EQ (which was a BIG concern of mine) sounded GREAT. the faders are responsive and practically EVERY function is ONE button press away (although some require holding the "shift" key). i was also concerned about the fader configuration (with 8 on top of the other 8 [as opposed to 16 side-by-side])....this is NOT an issue, however, and actually seems "easier" than the traditional (side-by-side) method based on the location of most of the "function" buttons on the VF16. there are external "insert" jacks for inputs 7/8 (as well as phantom power and XLR inputs for those two channels as well). i "think" that you can use the inserts on pre-recorded 7/8 tracks AS WELL as the 7/8 inputs (as you could on the FD-8) but i'm not sure. this would enable you to patch in an external compressor or effects box on those two tracks (meaning ANY two tracks,..thanks to the "track exchange" function). TO SUM UP, the VF16 is solid, it sounds great, it is flexible and versatile, it allows automation (via "scene recall") and 16 tracks of recording at an unbelievable price. the only aspect of the VF16 i was UNABLE to access in detail (the "megastore" was closing for the night) was the EFFECTS section. perhaps current VF16 owners can vouch for quality/realism of the effects. i would guess that they are pretty good (and editable as well). the VF16 seems an incredible bang for the buck. the hardrive is upgradeable to the size of your choice (up to 31 gig??). it is a "self-contained" unit but also allows for flexible integration with external devices. I LIKE IT ALOT (and a puchase is inevitable).
Cheers,
Cratinus
p.s. after auditioning the VF16 i IMMEDIATELY went to the latest "VS" recorder as well as the latest "DPS" recorder. the VF16 clearly whipped the compressed sound of the "VS" (to MY ears) and beat out the "DPS" recorder due to a much lower price and the fact that the "DPS" recorder had ABSOLUTELY ZERO "onboard" scene recall/automation (although with a good midi sequencer this WAS possible on the "DPS"). however, the "DPS" had NO inserts and NO "ADAT" interfacing (not that THAT is totally necessary,..it just ADDS to the flexibility of a recording device). NO THE VF16 IS NOT a 24bit/96khz recorder,...but it's just "barely" over $1,000 (if that much) seems easy to use AND SOUNDS GREAT.
 
i just wish to define/clarify the VF16 declarations that i made above. please keep in mind that my opinions are based on my FIRST and ONLY 30 minutes with the machine. i am certain that there WILL be some necessary manual reading involved and that there ARE some learning curves that might present themselves to certain (if not ALL) users. i am NOT a digital recording expert but I HAVE checked out alot of machines recently. i found the "basic" operations of the VF16 (as well as many "in depth" functions) to be EXTREMELY INTUITIVE and EASY to execute. the VF16 is certainly a pleasant suprise and (in MY estimation) A WINNER.
 
Thanks for the lowdown. Anybody like to buy an FD-8 in fine condition? I don't think I can sleep tonight.
 
I've owned my VF16 for a month and I think it's a good machine for it's price. Having 16 tracks instead of 8 is what sold me. I hate bouncing tracks because it adds an extra level of complexity to the mixing process. Keep in mind that I haven't owned or spent anytime with the similar units. It is easy to record using direct record and mixing and adding effects later. Buss recording is kind of confusing. I've been using outboard effects so I haven't really made an essessment of the internal effects. The owners manual is lacking information on how to hook it up to a CD burner but that seems to be a problem with most other products as well. I currently record to a Sony Minidisc and while it isn't CD quality, it is great to be able to erase and move songs around. If anyone can tell me what foot switch this unit needs to punch in and out with that would be great.
 
Right WideAwake, it's a pain having to "sub-mix" with the 8-track. I put all my vocals to stereo, as well as alot of guitar tracks to stereo. The same with drums. It takes alot of mental energy to do that, then I'm worn out and the "thrill" is gone.
 
Cratinus- (or anyone)

What kind of storage time are we talking? Say, how many 4 minute songs can one get using all 16 tracks. I assume it has an internal deal. Do you know if one might use his 250 Zip for storage too? thanks. kmar

Slaps forehead- questioned already answered above.
[This message has been edited by kmar (edited 07-11-2000).]

[This message has been edited by kmar (edited 07-11-2000).]
 
Although I haven't used my new VF-16 yet, I
am depending on it to burn my master CD's. Isn't it workable(in theory) to go SCSI port out into SCSI card of a PC and burn into a CD-R CD burner installed in the PC?
 
You guys are GREAT! I've been trying for several weeks to find more info on the VF-16, with little luck until I found your posts here. One question - I've got the impression from the manual pages posted on Chrisr's website that the VF-16 will "Back-up" to CDR. Does that mean actually saving all 16 tracks, and keeping them seperate, so they can be mixed later? That would be great.
 
FOR kmar:
according to my best caluculations, you get about 960 total minutes of recording time (if you delete the demo song). Using 16 tracks @ 4 min. per song, you could store 15 songs on the hard drive.

FOR mic98:
Yea, should be a peace of cake (although I haven't tried it yet personally).
Pages 90-95 of the manual should walk you through this process.

FOR Neptune:
I just ordered a dual tray CDR so I'll know the answer for sure shortly. It seems to depend on the method used to output the data; S/PDIF, adat digital, or SCSI.
In S/PDIF, it transfers in 2 track blocks. In adat digital, it transfers in 8, 16, or 24 track blocks. In SCSI, it transfers all 24 tracks (16, plus 8 virtual) automatically. Loading back in is simply the reverse.
Feel free to touch base with me in about a week and a half, I should have answers for sure.

Mark
 
markr,
Thanks for the reply. Good luck w/ the CDR. Looking forward to hearing how it works out.
 
Excellent source of info here! I am deciding between the Akai DPS16 and this Fostex 16 tracker.

MarkR - Do you know if the SCSI output can be routed to something like a ZIP drive?

Cratinus - Excellent review!

In laymans terms, how much of a difference is there between 24 bit and 16 bit? I've recorded using Minidisk, and using the BR-8.
Does anybody know what kind of sound difference I'll be hearing? (Wide awake, you might know this one)

thanks!


[This message has been edited by ranchfield (edited 07-13-2000).]
 
Hello Ranchfield. I don't know how much of a difference there is between 16, 20, and 24 bit systems. In some recent magazines they tested 24 bit vs. 20 bit and no one could tell the difference. The Akai DPS16 is really nice and it looks like the interface is logical....then again the Fostex VF16 is almost half the price. I think the Roland boxes have confusing interfaces and quirks. Don't get me wrong, I love Roland Products, especially their keyboards. I have spent some time with the effects in the VF16 and I like them. There isn't a lot of variety but the delays and reverbs work well. I wish there were better aux sends.
 
Hey Ranchfield, Yes, the manual specifically shows a zip drive as being an option for saving/loading data.
markr
 
I'm interested in the VF-12 too. It may be my first venture into home recording. I emailed Fostex about the use of inputs and how many channels could be recorded at once into the tracks. They said that the analog inputs A-H could be assigned to tracks 1-8 or 9-16 (default). If an ADAT interface is used then 16 are available. I'm not sure how that works. Is the ADAT interface an ADAT or some kind of mixer that throws multiple inputs through one of the inputs on the back? Or does the ADAT act as a 2nd mixer to access the other 8 tracks? As you've guessed, I'm new at this and confused. :-)
 
some mixers, specifically digital mixers, have adat style outputs so i'm pretty sure you could use those, not positive though... there probably are some cheaper (not necessarily cheap) convertors that do it as well
 
I would like to buy a VF-16, but hestate over the issue of how to move data to a PC.

Has anyone found the answer to the essential question, can you just plug the VF-16 directly into a SCSI port in a PC? And then burn to a CD on a CDR unit in the PC?

If so, what kind of SCSI port is on the VF-16(Wide SCSI, SCSI2, etc)? Anyone have a preference on the brand of SCSI port one should buy for the PC?

(I e-mailed Fostex with the question of plugging into a SCSI port on a PC, and got a reply that made no sense to me: I was told that you had to buy an external Zip drive and record to a DOS formatted disk. I would then have to attach the external drive to the PC to copy the file to the PC. Seems like a roundabout way to do things, and if the data can go to a Zip drive and then to a PC, surely you can skip the Zip drive and plug directly into the PC.) Any help on this issue would be greatly appreciated. It is a big issue for me, and the answer to the question will determine whether I buy a VF-16 or not.

Thanks.

[This message has been edited by Jake Johnson (edited 07-14-2000).]
 
Markr - thanks again for your input. Being able to backup and off load songs to Zip is a big plus. What is your opinion of the sound of the recording and effects? I'm thinking if I'm mastering down to CD (at 16-bit), then what benefit would recording at 24-bit give me?

Wide Awake - I agree with the assessment of Roland.. they definitely do put out some great stuff. But their 16 track recorder had a very small internal hard drive, the effects cards were optional, and you could only burn down to their Roland CD-R. I was able to test drive the Akai dps16 at the local store. I'm sure what I didn't like about it, except for the extremely pushy sales guy.. that didn't know much about the unit anyway.

The Fostex literature says they offer an effects return/send for each track. Is that accurate?
 
Hi Ranchfield. There is an effects send/return level control for each track but only one send jack for both proccessors. The manual is sketchy on how to hook up two effects proccessors, but I should figure it out soon. I only use one outboard proccessor at the moment--a Yamaha Rev500 reverb. I am using a lot of the internal effects for guitar and drum machine and it is so easy to use....I'm an amateur musician so I don't get too picky about having the upmost quality effects....besides I really like analog effects better than digital...I love cheap pedals.
 
Wide Awake.. again, I agree with you about the cheap pedal things. I've got effects racks from Lexicon and Zoom, but I swear some of the best delay comes from a 15 year old DOD delay pedal I have.. go figure.

I've heard bad things from other people too about how vague the owners manual is.. Let me know what you get figured out about hooking up two processors.

And I'm guessing you're fine with the recording sound of the unit (and effects)?

thanks again,

Ranchfield
Sin Limo Studios www.warp9.to/sls
 
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