Very Small Waveforms... A Little Worried

[danny.guitar]

The 3 to 1 rule doesn't apply to two mics recording the same thing. It is for recording two different things in the same room.

So the 3:1 rule doesn't apply to say...recording an acoustic with 2 mics? Unless I'm misunderstanding. All the things online I've read about stereo miking talk about following the 3:1 rule when setting up the mics in say, a spaced pair config.

 

[89gtsleeper]

Try pointing both overheads at the snare drum. Use the two stick rule for the one directly above the snare. Then use two sticks to the other one. Then make the distance between the kick beater the same between the two overheads. Should be able to get a sweet spot. If you're questioning phase issues, record single hits of each drum/cymbal one at a time then view the wave forms and see if the peaks line up.. if they don't then they are probably out of phase.

 

[Farview]

So the 3:1 rule doesn't apply to say...recording an acoustic with 2 mics? Unless I'm misunderstanding. All the things online I've read about stereo miking talk about following the 3:1 rule when setting up the mics in say, a spaced pair config.

No, it has nothing to do with a spaced pair. Think about it, if you had the one mic a foot away from the guitar, the other mic would have to be 3 feet away from the first mic. The second mic wouldn't even see the guitar.

There is a lot of misunderstanding about the 3 to 1 rule, and it gets spread around the internet alot.

The 3 to 1 rule if for when you are (for example) micing a guitar cabinet and a bass cab in the same room. If you have the mic 1 foot away from the guitar cab, the mic on the bass cab would have to be 3 feet away from the guitar cab. That way, the sound of the guitar that is coming through the bass mic would be quiet enough not to fight with the guitar coming through the guitar mic. It's all about isolation.

 

[avieth]

Try pointing both overheads at the snare drum. Use the two stick rule for the one directly above the snare. Then use two sticks to the other one. Then make the distance between the kick beater the same between the two overheads. Should be able to get a sweet spot. If you're questioning phase issues, record single hits of each drum/cymbal one at a time then view the wave forms and see if the peaks line up.. if they don't then they are probably out of phase.

So, the kick mic would be 2 sticks away from the snare? Or from the kick drum?

 

[Farview]

So, the kick mic would be 2 sticks away from the snare? Or from the kick drum?

The overheads should be two sticks above the level of the snare, and centered on the kick pedal.

This has nothing to do with the kick mic.

 

[Lectric_Lab]

avieth, guess the drummer playing is a main factor, mixing it up how you think sounds good and not having any of those red tics anywhere.
Have fun!

 

[PeteHalo]

The 3 to 1 rule doesn't apply to two mics recording the same thing.

I'd say it does apply to two mics recording the same thing. The thing you try to avoid using 3 to 1 rule is the comb filter effect that happens when two signals of the same source with a time difference between the signals are mixed together. This appies to both when you're micing a single source with two mics or when you're micing with two mics two different sources which bleed into each other. This comb filter effect affects the frequency response of the combined signal and the severity of this comb filter effect is determined by the relative strength of the signals in a way that when the signals are of equal strength the effect is at it's strongest and when the difference is more than 10dB the the effect becomes practically inaudible.

The 3:1 rule is just a simple way to make sure that relative strength of the signals differ more than 9dB but that alone doesn't guarantee that when you eventually mix those signals the comb filter effect wouldn't come to play. Think about the scene where a guitar amp and a bass amp is in the same room and the 1:3 rule is applied carefully. What happens if you decide while mixing that you need to turn up the bass channel or compress bass track? Originally the level of guitar bled to bass track is well below the guitar on guitar track thanks to the 1:3 rule applied but now you're bringing up the level of guitar on bass track and screwing the guitar tone while doing so because of the comb filter effect.

Just as with any other rule of thumb you still can screw up no matter how carefully you follow the rule unless you understand the reasoning behind that rule. The main thing to remember here is not 3:1 or 4:1 but you must make sure that while mixing the level of a single source on two tracks of which the other is delayed are different enough to avoid the ugly consequences of comb filtering. Fortunately 10dB difference is enough so you don't have to get rid of all the bleed.

 

[Farview]

I'd say it does apply to two mics recording the same thing.

It would only work if the mics had equal gain (during the mix). He was also trying to apply it to a spaced pair, which is completely wrong.