Very Small Waveforms... A Little Worried

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avieth

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I'm attempting to record some drums for a few tracks before I start on the other instruments. I just got all the necessary equipment over the past few weeks. I'm hanging two cardioid condensers over the kit and have a mic in the kick drum.

Anyways, my preamps aren't the greatest. I run the mics through them with the input level knobs at about half, and no gain to avoid distortion. I then run them through a software compressor. When I'm recording I get really small waveforms in the recording software, but the drums are still loud enough to be heard in the mix. The waveforms are making me worry though, should I be adding more gain even though I can hear them just fine?
 
what level are the peaking at?

If you increase their levels in the DAW do you get alot of hiss?

You maybe being a bit too conservative with your mic pres.
 
Forgot to mention I'm using the -10dB pad on the overheads. Trust me, this preamp distorts really easy.

I have my compressor threshold set to 0dB. The attack is 2ms and the release is 50ms. Ratio is 1:5.
 
avieth said:
I have my compressor threshold set to 0dB. The attack is 2ms and the release is 50ms. Ratio is 1:5.
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Soooo... what's the point of having a compressor?
 
:p I know, I changed that, still not getting any better results. I'll check my ADC levels.
 
You still haven't answered the question: When the faders in your DAW are set at unity (0db) what do meters peak at?
 
Turning up my ADCs the audio peaks at around -5dB. Except when I hit the crash cymbal, peak is right up at 0dB.
 
avieth said:
the drums are still loud enough to be heard in the mix. The waveforms are making me worry though, should I be adding more gain even though I can hear them just fine?
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Let me get this straight, they sound good but you don't like the way they look. Imagine those poor tape guys through the years. Their tracks sounded good but if they could've only seen them...............hmmmmmm...
 
Track Rat said:
Let me get this straight, they sound good but you don't like the way they look. Imagine those poor tape guys through the years. Their tracks sounded good but if they could've only seen them...............hmmmmmm...
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This is my first real recording project, I just don't want to screw anything up. I'm worried that they might sound too weak after I get the final mix on a CD and play it back.
 
I'm just giving you a hard time. Forgive me. If they sound good to you, they are good. Are you recording at 24 bits?
 
avieth said:
The waveforms are making me worry though, should I be adding more gain even though I can hear them just fine?
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No. You need to do two things: learn the difference between dBVU and dBFS, and find out the conversion factor between the two that your ADC is calibrated to.

Typically a signal that averages around 0VU on the analog side of your recording chain going into your ADC will come out on the digital side into your computer at anywhere between -12 and -20 dBFS. This is normal "nominal gain structure" and is just how it supposed to be.

G.
 
avieth said:
Turning up my ADCs the audio peaks at around -5dB. Except when I hit the crash cymbal, peak is right up at 0dB.
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I'd say that you're actually recording on the hot side if anything. I'd pull things back by a 6db or so.
 
If you really need your waveforms to be bigger, there is a zoom control for that.

There are 3 zoom controls:
The one on the bottom right zooms the width of the waveforms
The one on the right bottom zooms the height of the tracks
The one on the right top make the waveforms bigger looking

If you aren't at the right zoom level, the waveforms will seem small (or huge)
 
what preamps are you using? what kind of interface do you have?

you mentioned something like your preamps distort really easily. is this because a loud drum hit will make it peak or is your problem somewhere else?
 
nddhc said:
what preamps are you using? what kind of interface do you have?

you mentioned something like your preamps distort really easily. is this because a loud drum hit will make it peak or is your problem somewhere else?
Click to expand...

I picked up the preamp used for $75, tight budget. It's an ALTO Alpha MicTube. Definitely not the best piece of gear.

My interface is good though, M-Audio Delta 66.

I've decided not to mind the waveform shape and just make sure the signals are peaking between -9 and -2dB in the software.
 
Good, ignore the waveforms unless they look like giant bricks crawling across your screen. I used to think everything needed to be hot and the waveforms needed to be big. After throwing that logic out my recordings have become much more pleasant to listen to.
 
avieth said:
I picked up the preamp used for $75, tight budget. It's an ALTO Alpha MicTube. Definitely not the best piece of gear.

My interface is good though, M-Audio Delta 66.

I've decided not to mind the waveform shape and just make sure the signals are peaking between -9 and -2dB in the software.
Click to expand...


I'd probably aim to go no higher than -6dB to give you a bit of extra headroom just incase. Peaking at -2dB is sill a little hot for my taste..
 
I just moved the kit out of the corner and in to the middle of the room, facing a wall with some cushions up against it. My drummer isn't around so I can't test out the new set up, but it just feels a whole lot better.

I've been doing some more reading on recording drums. It has occured to me already that I might be getting some phasing problems. I have one overhead about 2 feet directly above the snare and another about 16" away over the ride/floor tom, pointing towards the top of the kick drum. I can't really apply the 3:1 rule because there is sound coming from many sources here, and with 3 mics I don't think I can get away with X/Y positioning and not lose all the attack from the snare and toms. Also, I've been reversing the phase on the kick drum mic, I should be doing this right? It will be out of phase with the overheads otherwise, correct?
 
The 3 to 1 rule doesn't apply to two mics recording the same thing. It is for recording two different things in the same room. The 3 to 1 rule helps phase cancellation due to bleed.

Are you recording on a computer? If so, you can zoom in on the waveforms and look to see if they are out of phase. In fact, you can slide them around to get everything lined up.
 
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