Velvet Underground -- Heroin (Cover)

I think the backing tracks need to come up. Performance-wise, it seems like the transition from slow to fast is more abrupt than what I remember from the original. That's from memory, and it's been many years since I listened to this song.
 
I probably prefer the RnR Animal version or the version on Live 69 but you've pretty much nailed this.
You're paying us all back for the Lou Reed references but I'm always happy to hear this song done decently. When the
BLOOD begins - seems to pitch a little roughly.
I'd pull the vox back a little bit, pull up the drone and centre the bass drum - I know that's not like the original but it bothers me over there.
Not sure about the lead guitar bits over on the side - doesn't sound manic or lost enough.
Good job.
 
rayc said:
You're paying us all back for the Lou Reed references.
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Lol!

I swear it's coincidence. Working on several handful of covers and this one just got done first.

Thanks for the nice comments, Ray. Agree the lead bits aren't manic enough, but I'm in an apartment setting and couldn't go full out mania. I recorded this with my real amp (instead of sim) and said to hell with the neighbors so it all had to be 1 take and that's what came out. Maybe I'll redo those bits when they're not home because I too would prefer absolute chaos there. Thanks for the mix suggestions, Ray!
 
I gave this a good couple of listens and I think you really have the right voice for this.:)

As mentioned by others, the vocal is too loud for such a sparse mix. It could do with a bit of compression on the mix to push the guitars and vocals together more when the volumes of the instruments come up.

I think the instrument doing the high drone note needs to be panned more left and sunk into the reverb more.

The reverb could do to be a fair bit longer/bigger, too. Not necessarily louder.

To widen the mix and give a little more interest in the quiet bits, you could do a trick with the tom-tom. I'd set up a channel with a single slap-back delay, very short, and pan it hard left away from the tom tom. It needs to be set very quiet, on the edge of hearing. Set up a send from your tom-tom to that channel, then set up a send from the delayed channel to your reverb bus. Adjust the levels to your taste. Just a suggestion, but I think it would work very well. I'd send a smidge of the guitar to the delay buss as well, while you're at it. :D

I like it. :)
 
Robus is right about the tempo changes being abrupt. I put on the original to compare (I hadn't heard it in years), and the tempo gradually speeds up. Yours goes from one tempo straight to a faster one. I don't know how you program a DAW to do that, so it's not like I could do it better. I try to avoid MIDI editing as much as possible, as it really tries my patience. I covered one song that had two time signatures (NOT complicated), and I used a MIDI file from the internet to start it with, so that I had the roadmap laid out already. I just replaced all the cheesy MIDI parts with my own audio and MIDI performances. If I were going to cover this song, I'd probably just say fuck it and try to do it without a click track rather than figure out how to program gradual tempo changes. Which of course would be a whole new set of headaches.

The vocal is a little loud, but not by a lot to my ears. It should be pretty upfront and dry(ish), just maybe slightly less so. This is a really good cover, it's just those tempo changes that kind of oversimplify it.
 
paulman77 said:
Robus is right about the tempo changes being abrupt. I put on the original to compare (I hadn't heard it in years), and the tempo gradually speeds up. Yours goes from one tempo straight to a faster one. I don't know how you program a DAW to do that, so it's not like I could do it better. I try to avoid MIDI editing as much as possible, as it really tries my patience. I covered one song that had two time signatures (NOT complicated), and I used a MIDI file from the internet to start it with, so that I had the roadmap laid out already. I just replaced all the cheesy MIDI parts with my own audio and MIDI performances. If I were going to cover this song, I'd probably just say fuck it and try to do it without a click track rather than figure out how to program gradual tempo changes. Which of course would be a whole new set of headaches.

The vocal is a little loud, but not by a lot to my ears. It should be pretty upfront and dry(ish), just maybe slightly less so. This is a really good cover, it's just those tempo changes that kind of oversimplify it.
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Thanks for your feedback Paulman.
I heard what robus means, and if you listen to the first tempo change I do a "ramp" (it starts to gradually increase tempo 2 bars beforehand at 1:05, then finally moves to the faster part at 1:15), so that one I heard on the original and programmed in the gradual increase, but to my ear the tempo changes after that first one are all "jumps", where they go from the slower tempo right into the faster one. I would have done the ramps on all the parts if I heard it that way, but I don't hear the gradual increase except on that first one. The also pick up tempo throughout the song. Like the first verse quiet section is ~100. But the next time the song slows down to the quiet part the tempo is much faster at 105 and the third quiet part ("born a thousand years ago") is actually 111. It's complicated to program. Most songs have 0 tempo changes and this one I programmed in 16, which is pretty much a royal pain in the butt to play along to.

There are a lot of nuances in the song that are hard to capture as a one man band.

The thing about the original -- Mo Tucker loses tempo A LOT and is like a half beat late sometimes, and it sounds like some sections are spliced in from other takes. It's a very hard song tempo-wise, and that gives me clues they even messed it up.

I get what you're saying, though, don't take this as defensive. I just thought you might find it interesting -- go back and listen for all the drum "errors". They're pretty fascinating. They're somewhat musical at the same time, which is why they probably left them.
 
Bubba po said:
I gave this a good couple of listens and I think you really have the right voice for this.:)

As mentioned by others, the vocal is too loud for such a sparse mix. It could do with a bit of compression on the mix to push the guitars and vocals together more when the volumes of the instruments come up.

I think the instrument doing the high drone note needs to be panned more left and sunk into the reverb more.

The reverb could do to be a fair bit longer/bigger, too. Not necessarily louder.

To widen the mix and give a little more interest in the quiet bits, you could do a trick with the tom-tom. I'd set up a channel with a single slap-back delay, very short, and pan it hard left away from the tom tom. It needs to be set very quiet, on the edge of hearing. Set up a send from your tom-tom to that channel, then set up a send from the delayed channel to your reverb bus. Adjust the levels to your taste. Just a suggestion, but I think it would work very well. I'd send a smidge of the guitar to the delay buss as well, while you're at it. :D

I like it. :)
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Thanks, Bubba. I'm trying some of those suggestions out now.

I tend to be very conservative with compression and really all effects, so I'm struggling to get it to work once I add those. Once I added the compression to the mix buss everything else kind of changed.
 
I think maybe the drums could be a little bit brighter. Maybe do a shelf at 10k or something...but is not bad sounding at all...maybe it could use a little air.

I dont think the vocals are that upfront. It sounds nice and it fits the whole thing really nicely.

My only suggestion is that the whole mix could be just a touch more brighter.
 
Thanks Cmolena. You have a good ear -- I rolled off all the drum's highs to try to simulate the original tom sound in the VU recording.

Also, if anyone hates this cover please speak up, too. That's how I get better, by knowing what's wrong.
 
Nola said:
Thanks Cmolena. You have a good ear -- I rolled off all the drum's highs to try to simulate the original tom sound in the VU recording.

Also, if anyone hates this cover please speak up, too. That's how I get better, by knowing what's wrong.
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I don't hate this cover. It's really good :D My only comments are about subtle ways to widen the audio panorama and give interest to the mix. ;)
 
Bubba po said:
I don't hate this cover. It's really good :D My only comments are about subtle ways to widen the audio panorama and give interest to the mix. ;)
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I know, Bubba, but in the Tele thread I realized that I don't want to fall into that pattern of only listening to positive comments because that doesn't lead to any growth, and if people hate this I encourage them to say why (like...if it's constructive not just to be a dick) I so I can maybe improve something (if it's within my ability to do so).

I'm all about reality/growing with performance and recording so if anyone has an issue they can lay it on me.
 
Nice guitar tone and playing. Vocals are too loud to me, with respect to the backing tracks. I like the drums, what are you using?

For the most part, the vocals work. There are a few indecisive parts pitch-wise, but that'd be easy to fix with another take or two. And there are some rushed phrases that could be started a bit earlier, in anticipation of the beat so you don't have to cram them all into place in a game of catch-up.

The distorted solo guitar on the left could come up, at least automated so it has a spotlight when the vocals aren't active.

Cool job overall. I like your voice, and as was mentioned above, it's perfect for a VU cover like this.
 
Tadpui said:
For the most part, the vocals work. There are a few indecisive parts pitch-wise, but that'd be easy to fix with another take or two. And there are some rushed phrases that could be started a bit earlier, in anticipation of the beat so you don't have to cram them all into place in a game of catch-up.
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This is key. First off you have to remember Velvet underground was always Lou's band. As in, they followed him. The tempo changes were in response to what 'he' dictated. Lou wasn't a good singer, but he was confident and had no hesitation. Your vocal has some lack of those qualities.
On the plus side, you do uncannily sound like him. So much that with the right players you could do a great Lou Reed trubute band.

Now in this recording, putting yourself in the role of lou Reed, you find yourself following the band. It's backwards.
Granted, you 'are' the band, but a 'programed version' of the band. In that instance instinct and flowing with a groove is replaced by trying to follow a programed 'machine'.

That makes it tough. But you did pretty good.

I do think the 'band' needs to come up a bit.
'Lou' is a little loud. :D


I'll shut up now.
:D
 
Before I listened, I was thinking - no way the vocals are going to be loud - they're supposed to be loud. But yeah maybe up a little. I guess I would try lowering them about 3 dB, and maybe compressing a little (more?) if they get lost. You do sound like Lou!
 
It's really cool you took this on nola. It's a great fit for you and I think you've done a fine job.

I agree the vocals could come down a little - they clearly need to be way out in front, but I think they're a little too far even against the original. I'm not crazy on the fizzy guitar that comes in at around 3.55 - I do think it needs to break up to contrast with the clean main part, but it's too much gain.

The timing changes work well. Drums get a bit messy here and there, but then again, the timing is all over the place in the original and it's never affected my enjoyment of it. Without a live band taking cues from the singer, I can't see how you'd gradually pick up the pace - other than recording the vocals first and then the instruments after, so that they follow the vocal lead. You'd have to trigger the 'drums' manually from a keyboard or something. That would be a pain in the ass over 7 minutes.

Nice work.
 
Regarding gradual tempo changes, if you're using Reaper it's easy. When you insert a tempo change marker there's a little tick box that says "Transition tempo gradually to next marker".
 
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