Variax (Worth it or not :))

[muttley600]

If you really think you can get any where close to all those guitar or other instrument sounds out of one $xxx guitar I'll tell you now you can't. There are a whole bunch of reasons why not and I really can't be arsed to go through them all. Rarely make a point of commenting on "which guitar" threads or "is this a good guitar?" threads because mostly it's subjective. In the case of Variax an Fender acoustics I'll make an exception.

I say again there is no substitute for the real thing a good amp, a good mic setup and a good idea of the sound you want and most important the right playing technique to achieve it. If Variax could deliver that then thousands of prominent guitar players would queue round the block to buy them. They don't.

At the end of the day it isn't about the money but more about saving the time it takes to realise that.

Unless of course you want to record lift/elevator music or pron soundtracks in which case you need two.

 

[acidrock]

Hey Mutt,what do you really think about the Variax?

I'm sorry,but I would pick op the Variax in a second if I were just starting out on a tight budget.Of course you can't beat the real thing,but you have to live in the here and now and can't let yourself be paralyzed by not having gear you can't afford.The Variax has a wide variety of tones giving a person a nice palette of songs for songwriting,not everyone has to be a tone god.

The people on this forum represent a fraction os percent when it comes to listening skills,the average person when listening to a song don't jump out and say "that's not a real guitar!",in my experience the average person barely knows what instruments are which.

 

[muttley600]

Hey Mutt,what do you really think about the Variax?

I'm sorry,but I would pick op the Variax in a second if I were just starting out on a tight budget.Of course you can't beat the real thing,but you have to live in the here and now and can't let yourself be paralyzed by not having gear you can't afford.The Variax has a wide variety of tones giving a person a nice palette of songs for songwriting,not everyone has to be a tone god.

The people on this forum represent a fraction os percent when it comes to listening skills,the average person when listening to a song don't jump out and say "that's not a real guitar!",in my experience the average person barely knows what instruments are which.

OK, I'll further clarify my response and why I am correct.

Unknown territory for me here, go crazy and tell me your views..

Small project studio, wondered if I should buy a guitar that has become available. Its an Old Line 6 Variax 300 Sunburst for around £135 or $105 ish.

What quality would I expect to get from this compared to Mic'ing an acoustic, or an amp.

thx

I've highlighted the parts of the Original post that everyone seems to be overlloking.

"Go crazy, tell me your views" I did and clarified them as subjective. However they are well informed.

"What quality would I expect to get from this compared to Mic'ing an acoustic, or an amp." Self explanatory.

I also went on to suggest that if you want a guitar sound the best way is to get a guitar and mic it. I further commented that it is best to concentrate on the playing and micing of the guitar in the long run rather than waste a lot of time on becoming frustrated with a less than average sounding modeling setup..

Carry on....

 

[acidrock]

OK, I'll further clarify my response and why I am correct.

Well Mutt,you are correct and you are the expert,I think myself and others aren't so much making the pitch from a pure sound standpoint but from a budget/value standpoint.No arguments here just saying from a philosophical standpoint one could say that playing and hitting the red button is just as important as the gear you use,so that when you've got the $$$ for the gear you'll have a bit of experience to make it sound that much better.

 

[muttley600]

Well Mutt,you are correct and you are the expert,I think myself and others aren't so much making the pitch from a pure sound standpoint but from a budget/value standpoint.No arguments here just saying from a philosophical standpoint one could say that playing and hitting the red button is just as important as the gear you use,so that when you've got the $$$ for the gear you'll have a bit of experience to make it sound that much better.

I was responding to the OP. As I have stated already I rarely comment on "philosophical" threads except where Fender Acoustic or Variax are concerned. I always advise against them. In the case of Variax because of the over promise and the inevitable disappointment and frustration. In the case of Fender acoustics because they are crap.

 

[acidrock]

I was responding to the OP. As I have stated already I rarely comment on "philosophical" threads except where Fender Acoustic or Variax are concerned. I always advise against them. In the case of Variax because of the over promise and the inevitable disappointment and frustration. In the case of Fender acoustics because they are crap.

You're breaking my heart here Mutt,I've been playing a Fender acoustic for over twenty years.

 

[Lt. Bob]

A Variax isn't going to sound just like the real things anymore than amp modelers sound just like real amps. I'm an amp guy and modelers don't do it for me ........... however; for 105 bucks I'd snap up a Variax in a second. While having the real things would always be way better ..... fact is, I'll NEVER have the real things available to me. The Variax could at least provide some different colors in my recordings and could, at least, provide the suggestion of a violin or mondo or whatever and that's a lot more than I have now.
And sometimes just a suggestion of an instrument is enough to get the vibe you're after.

Muttley and I come from the same place ...... a long history of playing and gigging and recording and really have our ears tuned in to what we've heard thru the years.
So I'm NOT arguing against his stance that a Variax won't sound like the real thing because, for us, it won't.
But for someone with a project studio who's just having fun, for 105 bucks I personally see it as a good way to spend that much money.

 

[muttley600]

A Variax isn't going to sound just like the real things anymore than amp modelers sound just like real amps. I'm an amp guy and modelers don't do it for me ........... however; for 105 bucks I'd snap up a Variax in a second. While having the real things would always be way better ..... fact is, I'll NEVER have the real things available to me. The Variax could at least provide some different colors in my recordings and could, at least, provide the suggestion of a violin or mondo or whatever and that's a lot more than I have now.
And sometimes just a suggestion of an instrument is enough to get the vibe you're after.

Muttley and I come from the same place ...... a long history of playing and gigging and recording and really have our ears tuned in to what we've heard thru the years.
So I'm NOT arguing against his stance that a Variax won't sound like the real thing because, for us, it won't.
But for someone with a project studio who's just having fun, for 105 bucks I personally see it as a good way to spend that much money.

I'd take that hundred bucks and spend it on another decent tool. Mic, stands, hell I'd sooner spend it on a new set of bass strings for me upright... anything but a Variax. OP question was straight forward, so was my answer.

 

[muttley600]

You're breaking my heart here Mutt,I've been playing a Fender acoustic for over twenty years.

No.. You're breaking my heart.

 

[Lt. Bob]

I'd take that hundred bucks and spend it on another decent tool. Mic, stands, hell I'd sooner spend it on a new set of bass strings for me upright... anything but a Variax. OP question was straight forward, so was my answer.

calm down mang!


How's the injury coming?

 

[acidrock]

No.. You're breaking my heart.

Well I'm truly sorry about that and I hope you'll forgive me when I tell you that the only reason I haven't bought a Variax yet is that it doesn't have a model of a Fender acoustic.

 

[Lt. Bob]

Well I'm truly sorry about that and I hope you'll forgive me when I tell you that the only reason I haven't bought a Variax yet is that it doesn't have a model of a Fender acoustic.

 

[muttley600]

calm down mang!


How's the injury coming?

Got an op coming up in the next week or two. Back on crutches for 4-6 weeks so I shall around more to terrorize noobs some more.

 

[muttley600]

Well I'm truly sorry about that and I hope you'll forgive me when I tell you that the only reason I haven't bought a Variax yet is that it doesn't have a model of a Fender acoustic.

Mutts tip of the day: Get a plastic uke instead.. Thank me later.

 

[acidrock]

Mutts tip of the day: Get a plastic uke instead.. Thank me later.

A couple of things,I wanted to get a plastic uke,a Fluke or Flea,but they sounded terrible on every clip I heard of them.
I used to play out in an acoustic duet and we always played Ovations,great necks for playing leads and four hour sets,plus no feedback,but once I put a mic to them I said goodbye to Ovations.


I mentioned in my first post about listening and how it affects our opinions.Mutt you live in a world where being anal about sound is your job and compromise is a no-no,someone like Lt.Bob OTOH lives in a world of continual compromise.Even though you both have great listening skills and talents you end up with different opinions on the same guitar and this is based on your backgrounds.If Lt.Bob made a recording with a modeler and we both listened to it,you would hear the modeler and I would hear Lt.Bob.It's my opinion that if a musician has something to say he should be able to transcend his tools and conversely all the tools in the world aren't going to help an uninspired performance.

Once again this is not about the quality of sound,rather using tool that's out there.

 

[Lt. Bob]

an addition to acids' post.

I USED to be pretty anal about this shit.

And as a 35 year piano tuner and 45 year player for my living I have very trained ears. Possibly not quite as good as mutts', I don't know ...... but somewhere in that ballpark.

But I just don't get worked up about it anymore.
A newb is gonna be a newb and an intermediate level player/recordist is gonna be intermediate in skills. That's just how it is.

muttley's trying to save them some money and speed up their learning curve.
I'm not sure they don't end up better if they go ahead and go thru all the mistakes. I think you might learn more and better that way.
I see newbs here all the time that have gotten advice from experienced people and treat it as a hard-fast RULE. Then to them, that becomes the only way to do things with no possibility of anything else having any use at all.
That, in itself, becomes a different kind of handicap.

I said in my original post that I thought that in a studio I wouldn't have as favorable a reaction to the Variax and I'm sure that's the case.
But I have good ears and I heard it myself. In that particular live setting with that particular player, the damned thing was pretty nice and useful.
If I hear it ....... or heard it rather .... then that's the way it was. I don't mis-hear things.
Now, it could very well be that that particular player worked hard on his phrasing and technique and made the thing sound better than most others could.
Regardless, it worked well in that particular setting ...... my ears said so and so that's the way it was. I don't start doubting my ears just because someone comes along and says it couldn't have been that way.
I heard what I heard.

And once again, I'm not really arguing with muttley here ..... I WAY respect his ears and knowledge and we have gone into battle together before about amp modelers vs real amps. I'm not a fan of modelers.
But for playing around and having fun in a studio or on gigs I'd snap up a Variax in a second for a good price.
I like to have fun with sound.
The other day I took my solid body 12-string to a gig and used it. Why? Just for the fuck of it!

It's quite impractical as a gigging guitar and there's a lot of things it can't do and it sounds wrong for a lotta stuff.
It was fun just to try and get around its' limitations and make it sound decent on stuff it shouldn't sound decent on.
And it ended up NOT sounding too good on rock stuff.
Who cares? I like to have fun playing music and when it's not fun I'll quit.
And, for me, part of having fun is trying new shit just for the hell of it.
Why not?
Music isn't, or shouldn't be IMO, too serious of an endevour.

 

[stevieb]

There is a dichotomy here that may not be apparent- that between the best tools for recording, and the best tools for performance. I won't go into explaining the reasons for that dichotomy, as I am sure most here can see them, now that I have shined a light on that dark corner, but I will say that some pieces of gear- solid state guitar amps, modeling gear, Ovations, the Variax- make good performance tools, but may fall short for more exacting recording.

 

[muttley600]

A couple of things,I wanted to get a plastic uke,a Fluke or Flea,but they sounded terrible on every clip I heard of them.
I used to play out in an acoustic duet and we always played Ovations,great necks for playing leads and four hour sets,plus no feedback,but once I put a mic to them I said goodbye to Ovations.


I mentioned in my first post about listening and how it affects our opinions.Mutt you live in a world where being anal about sound is your job and compromise is a no-no,someone like Lt.Bob OTOH lives in a world of continual compromise.Even though you both have great listening skills and talents you end up with different opinions on the same guitar and this is based on your backgrounds.If Lt.Bob made a recording with a modeler and we both listened to it,you would hear the modeler and I would hear Lt.Bob.It's my opinion that if a musician has something to say he should be able to transcend his tools and conversely all the tools in the world aren't going to help an uninspired performance.

Once again this is not about the quality of sound,rather using tool that's out there.

At the time Ovations were a gret choice for live acoustic work. Not so much any more. I wouldn't place any value on their studio value.

There is a dichotomy here that may not be apparent- that between the best tools for recording, and the best tools for performance. I won't go into explaining the reasons for that dichotomy, as I am sure most here can see them, now that I have shined a light on that dark corner, but I will say that some pieces of gear- solid state guitar amps, modeling gear, Ovations, the Variax- make good performance tools, but may fall short for more exacting recording.

I refer you again to the OP's original question and my response.. Please try taking a closer look at that before you make any further value judgments.

Both myself and Bob have a good deal of practical and live experience with sound and gear. Lt toons piano's and therefore must have an ear for tone and pitch every bit good as mine.

 

[muttley600]

an addition to acids' post.

I USED to be pretty anal about this shit.

And as a 35 year piano tuner and 45 year player for my living I have very trained ears. Possibly not quite as good as mutts', I don't know ...... but somewhere in that ballpark.

But I just don't get worked up about it anymore.
A newb is gonna be a newb and an intermediate level player/recordist is gonna be intermediate in skills. That's just how it is.

muttley's trying to save them some money and speed up their learning curve.
I'm not sure they don't end up better if they go ahead and go thru all the mistakes. I think you might learn more and better that way.
I see newbs here all the time that have gotten advice from experienced people and treat it as a hard-fast RULE. Then to them, that becomes the only way to do things with no possibility of anything else having any use at all.
That, in itself, becomes a different kind of handicap.

I said in my original post that I thought that in a studio I wouldn't have as favorable a reaction to the Variax and I'm sure that's the case.
But I have good ears and I heard it myself. In that particular live setting with that particular player, the damned thing was pretty nice and useful.
If I hear it ....... or heard it rather .... then that's the way it was. I don't mis-hear things.
Now, it could very well be that that particular player worked hard on his phrasing and technique and made the thing sound better than most others could.
Regardless, it worked well in that particular setting ...... my ears said so and so that's the way it was. I don't start doubting my ears just because someone comes along and says it couldn't have been that way.
I heard what I heard.

And once again, I'm not really arguing with muttley here ..... I WAY respect his ears and knowledge and we have gone into battle together before about amp modelers vs real amps. I'm not a fan of modelers.
But for playing around and having fun in a studio or on gigs I'd snap up a Variax in a second for a good price.
I like to have fun with sound.
The other day I took my solid body 12-string to a gig and used it. Why? Just for the fuck of it!

It's quite impractical as a gigging guitar and there's a lot of things it can't do and it sounds wrong for a lotta stuff.
It was fun just to try and get around its' limitations and make it sound decent on stuff it shouldn't sound decent on.
And it ended up NOT sounding too good on rock stuff.
Who cares? I like to have fun playing music and when it's not fun I'll quit.
And, for me, part of having fun is trying new shit just for the hell of it.
Why not?
Music isn't, or shouldn't be IMO, too serious of an endevour.

I ain't anal about how stuff sounds. Quite the opposite I have a very broad palette of tolerance. I do have a fairly good ear for the detail when required but have learned to place more importance on the "whole". I haven't gigged as much as you having only down around two or three a week on average but thats over a lot of years and good deal of styles and venues. I would still maintain that a Variax would be the last thing I'd appreciate turning up on the stand and I doubt very much if I'd dep that gig again.

I agree that the live and studio thing is a big factor here but I would still spend my money on a mic rather than a Variax. I did take the OP as talking more studio than live setting but seriously I'd be interested to know how much use you'd get out of a variax other than midi stuff you couldn't do on a keyboard?

 

[Supercreep]

We have several nice guitars, and we also have a Variaxe. I think the Variaxe is useful for demoing tonal ideas and for the occasional studio detail one-off, like electric sitar or some of the "acoustic" sounds.

Having to rely on it for a bread and butter sound isn't a good plan. But as a companion to some real guitars and amps, it's a good sketchpad.