Variax - what do you honestly think?

[ROblows]

I would wager that in 10 years every major brand will have some sort of digital guitar. I think this is only the begining. It will get better with time for sure, but the tech has too much up side escpecially with there being a digital studio in every basement and spare bedroom accross the world.

Except that, and I can't get over this point, it's about as cool as a "keytar".

 

[Ed Dixon]

That's the way folks originally looked at cell phones, which were the size of bricks and cost about 3K in today dollars.. However today almost all of us have one.

5 years ago people did not know why they needed a "home computer"., Today many have a PC network with wireless access to a laptop in those same homes.

I had my first digital guitar synth pickup more than 15 years ago. Most had no clue of what it was. Today the're much more common and work much better.

Ed

 

[ROblows]

That's the way folks originally looked at cell phones, which were the size of bricks and cost about 3K in today dollars.. However today almost all of us have one.

Not a very good analogy.

5 years ago people did not know why they needed a "home computer"., Today many have a PC network with wireless access to a laptop in those same homes.

Not a very good analogy.

I had my first digital guitar synth pickup more than 15 years ago. Most had no clue of what it was. Today the're much more common and work much better.

That's a better analogy. Saying "I had my first digital guitar synth pickup more than 15 years ago" is about as cool as saying "I Dungeonmastered my first D&D game more than 15 years ago". If you're into that kind of thing, more power to you. Where I'm coming from, though, there is a certain element of style involved in playing guitar. And I don't mean playing style. I mean a sense of "cool". There is a long tradition of this going back centuries, or at least decades. There should be a certain bravado in being a musician. Miles certainly knew that as early as the '50's. Playing a guitar synth or a keytar or a VAX would pretty much flush all my self respect down the toilet.

Not a very politically correct view, I'm sure. But one I firmly stand by, at least for myself.

 

[Garry Sharp]

Well each to his own, ROblows, and musicians are famously conservative. By definition your view can't be worng, because it's a subjective opinion and you're entitled to it, but I have sympathy with Ed - I think doing things with new technology is WAY cool. And I never played D&D in my life

 

[ROblows]

Well each to his own, ROblows, and musicians are famously conservative.

I'm actually not very conservative. I embrace all kinds of new technology. And you should see what kinds of music I listen to. Not the collection of a crotchety old bastard, to be sure. It's purely a style thing for me. The VAX is very uncool. If I was 12 years old, I'd think of it as "gay".

You gotta admit, at least half the people reading this thread are thinking the same thing. They just won't say it.

 

[Ed Dixon]

Saying "I had my first digital guitar synth pickup more than 15 years ago" is about as cool as saying "I Dungeonmastered my first D&D game more than 15 years ago". If you're into that kind of thing, more power to you. Where I'm coming from, though, there is a certain element of style involved in playing guitar. And I don't mean playing style. I mean a sense of "cool". There is a long tradition of this going back centuries, or at least decades. There should be a certain bravado in being a musician. Miles certainly knew that as early as the '50's. Playing a guitar synth or a keytar or a VAX would pretty much flush all my self respect down the toilet.

Each are examples of how technology becomes accepted and used by the masses. Digital guitars are perhaps one more that may occur on a larger scale, or it may not. Time will tell.

I've never been concerned about "cool". I also have not played D&D (I only know what it is because I hear my grandson talk about games). I do wish the Variax were better looking, but that has not detered me from using it live. I'm more interested in sound and flexibility than coolness.

Bravado is something my father-in-law had, and he was a pretty good guy. Had he played the guitar (which he did not), I believe he would have taken your viewpoint and stood by it firmly. It would have been a good subject for friendly debate on a regular basis.

Ed

 

[PeteHalo]

I'm actually not very conservative. I embrace all kinds of new technology. And you should see what kinds of music I listen to. Not the collection of a crotchety old bastard, to be sure. It's purely a style thing for me. The VAX is very uncool. If I was 12 years old, I'd think of it as "gay".

You gotta admit, at least half the people reading this thread are thinking the same thing. They just won't say it.

This is funny really. Every time someone runs out of valid arguments they bring up something like this gay or cool sh#t. Your cool may not be someone else's cool, you know?

Besides, being "cool" usually means that you don't have the guts to stand out from the crowd and be yourself but try to blend in the masses by camouflaging behind some stuff that's considered to be "cool" by that particular crowd. In fact I think you're mixing up coolness with cliche.

 

[guhlenn]

well... that does not hold. One of the major reasons NOT to go for the variax is to stand out. i have a 24 fret gibson SG I that you almost never see around. I like that. I dislike fender's en Paul's for the same reason. I dislike the fact that people "need" 1000 sounds when they are playing their own , original, music. I would like to be recognized for "my sound". Changing my pickup height 1mm makes a dramatic change in my sound. I consider my gear to be somewhat alive. It does not sound the same every day.

 

[philboyd studge]

well... that does not hold. One of the major reasons NOT to go for the variax is to stand out. i have a 24 fret gibson SG I that you almost never see around. I like that. I dislike fender's en Paul's for the same reason. I dislike the fact that people "need" 1000 sounds when they are playing their own , original, music. I would like to be recognized for "my sound". Changing my pickup height 1mm makes a dramatic change in my sound. I consider my gear to be somewhat alive. It does not sound the same every day.

And that's great and as it should be. As I mentioned earlier I didn't reccomend a Variax to any guitar playing associates, because they have their own sound, something that took many years to develop and something you shouldn't mess with. For me though it's different being a multi instrumentalist and to have something with the capabilities of the Variax acoustic around makes things all that easier. Plus there are sounds I just can't get anywhere else.

This whole Variax discussion is very similar to opinions on the Bose PAS. Steve Miller's comments on it in the Bose forum are an interesting read.

 

[guhlenn]

Glad we agree, i will check the thread out.

edit; can't find it right now, didn;t try that hard either.... care to paste a link?

 

[philboyd studge]

Glad we agree, i will check the thread out.

edit; can't find it right now, didn;t try that hard either.... care to paste a link?

My main computer's down and I'm running on a laptop. Just google Bose and look for professional ...nevermind,,found it:

http://bose.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x

 

[ROblows]

This is funny really. Every time someone runs out of valid arguments they bring up something like this gay or cool sh#t.

I never claimed my argument was "valid". In fact, I don't really have an argument at all. Just an aesthetic opinion. It's not something that can be justified with logic, and I don't think I've made any suggestion that it can.

Your cool may not be someone else's cool, you know?

Absolutely. A guy who plays in a BTO cover band will have a different definition of "cool" than me. A guy who collects Barbie dolls probably would have a different definition of "cool" than me. Guys who go to Star Trek conventions wearing vulcan ears likely have a different definition of "cool" than me. But, my definition is the only one that matters for my purposes.

Besides, being "cool" usually means that you don't have the guts to stand out from the crowd and be yourself but try to blend in the masses by camouflaging behind some stuff that's considered to be "cool" by that particular crowd. In fact I think you're mixing up coolness with cliche

I think your confusing "cool" with "boring". I don't really expect you to get it though. You're probably not very cool

 

[boomtap]

Some people probably still use a typewriter, ride thier horse down to the local watering hole, and post their messages using thumb tacks to the side of a BBS Forum Tree.

I can't help but think that somewhere not that long ago somebody said "Have you seen where they took a guitar, added some fancy magnetic electronics, and hook it up to an amplifier? That will never work, it sounds like crap compared to a real guitar."

 

[Dogman]

I want a Super Sized Fry......

Actually, just reading the thread, and glad to see a sense of humor here....

 

[mixmkr]

here again, it seems items that "model" other instruments are put down as they will never sound like the original. Nothing ever is like an original. What is wrong using a Variax for your own sounds...and so what if it starts out sounding kinda like something else? Shoot..my cheezy old J-station doesn't sound like a wall-o-Marshalls, but it can sure kick butt with some other sounds....even though it is set on the "wall-o-Marshall" setting.

Big deal.

btw... Hagstrom guitars still suck...they are not vintage!

 

[mixmkr]

btw, I am kinda also of the opinion, that people that can't get items like a Variax to sound good, are probably not good players to start with. Isn't it fact that 95% or more of the sound is from the fingers and not the instrument? oh...wait... I just read that somewhere!!

btw.. I can rock on a Hagstrom...!(but haven't since I got better guitars 35 years ago ).

 

[ahuimanu]

Being that this is a Home Recording site, I'd think that visual aesthetic would mean very little and Home Recording connotes music being made and tracked in the confines of basement/bedroom studios. Given this demographic and dynamic, tools, such as the POD and the Variax would seem of paramount interest. Now, if you need "vibe" and "mood" in order to track, then I suppose the aesthetic of your instrument might matter, however, in most cases, I'd think function would trump form.

I just don't trust the variax at this point, personally, but I am a firm believer in the advantages and shortcuts a product like the Variax promises.

I really like this site, but I tire of what I sometimes feel is elitism against bedroom studio efficiencies. I'd say the "pocket" demographic here is amatuer/enthusiast musicians trying to learn how to get the best bang for buck to get their tunes recorded. Hell, acoustically treated/tuned room with vintate mikes recording a $15,000 vintage geetar through pristine high-end TOOOB amps? Hell yes, I'd love to!!!

BUT

Being an average working stiff, can I afford any of this? Not a prayer. If the focus of this site was "top pro recording" or "playing out live" then I could understand many of the attitudes, but it seems that the purpose of the variax is line with the rest of the business model of Line 6: can we get "in the ball park" classic sounds into the hands of the average joe/home recording enthusiast? On that goal I believe Line 6 deserves some kudos.

I am no opinion cop and people saying that this axe doesn't sound like the real McCoy or looks crappy is an opinion worth hearing, but I sometimes wonder if most of us have lost the plot here at hr.com.

I'd seriously love to see a demographics survey taken of the readership sometime. There's nothing wrong with striving for the highest quality gear and sound, but let's face it, a lot of the attraction of a site like HomeRecording.com is so that joe-average can learn and discuss about homerecording through low-cost gear. In this respect, I'd say the promise of the Variax is revolutionary.

So, to carry the ball here, on it's merits, how's da axe?

J-

 

[Ed Dixon]

The “elitism” factor does rear its ugly head here on a regular basis. As you said, most here are probably pretty close to the name of the forum, “home recorders”. We also have interest in live work, as I expect most also play live from time to time.

The Variax is an electronic guitar, which is completely different from virtually every other guitar ever made. The best evaluative comments are generally going to come from owners who have actual extended experience with the unit. They can (much better) tell you how it works well and how it does not. They have real experience with the sounds and what it takes to get the most out of it.

One simple example. The Variax, as purchased, has a range of tones from different guitars. Consider the Strat and Les Paul sounds. Both sound pretty good and are useable tones. However they are hard to use live, as the output volume is somewhat different (which models the original instruments fairly closely). Since most of us have a single rig we use live, having output level drop considerably when changing guitar sounds creates problems. Most who have used the Variax live have probably experienced this issue.

The solution is the Line 6 Workbench software. It allows the owner to tweak the actual sounds in the Variax to suit their needs. I use a rack and a FCB1010 floor controller with the volume up position set to a default rhythm volume. I use the WB software to tweak all the sounds so that each guitar preset produces the same volume level.

I should also mention that the WB software is pretty useful to tweak other aspects of the Variax sounds. You can change body styles, pickups, pickup placement, pickup angle, volume and tone tapers, pickup level and volume, pickup phasing, and overall preset volume. There are also controls for alternate tunings and settings for 12 string operation. If one plays with a Capo sometimes, a Variax can be tweaked to play in a different key with no capo. Things like dropped D tuning can also be programmed and does not require any live string tuning changes.

The most underrated feature of the Variax, for home recorders, is the lack of any noise. I record at home with a Fostex MR8. I used to use my PRS Custom 24 for guitar work. On songs where the guitar started the song, I used to have to turn just right to avoid getting any pickup noise in the recording before the main parts queued in. Sure you can edit most of this out later, but the better the original track, the better the result.

The Variax is dead silent for all presets. It’s hard to realize how useful this is until you record with it, and then note – no noise…

One would correctly conclude that I like the Variax. I have owned one for some time now, and it’s the best guitar $ I ever spent. I use it both live (every weekend) and for home recording. I play at church as well as in a classic rock group, so the live venues vary considerably. My home recording is mostly doing music for live vocalists. I produce all the music and an associated CD. They play the CD and sing live. The Variax is a great tool for all these endeavors.

Ed

 

[boomtap]

The lack of noise is the best part for me. I can record right in front of a computer screen, have complete silence, and I can finally turn off the noise gates. I think one reason that the guitar sounds are a bit diffrent from the real thing is that the recordings are actully much clearer. You are no longer recording a bunch of noise or trying to cover it up by getting your SN/Ratio tweaked. Clean Clear and simple.

 

[acidrock]

If I were starting over again I'd buy the Variax in an instant.

Sound is subjective,post a thread about any band and you'll probably get people who think they're great and some that think they suck.

If you can afford a room full of guitars more power to you.
Same thing goes for amps.
A lot of us have got other things going in our lives besides music and tools such as the Variax can let you have your cake and eat it too.

I think the idea of one guitar replacing many can be scary to those in the business,but that's progress.We could still be plowing and seeding fields by hand if we gave in to the resistance of farm workers.



To echo Philboyds remarks,a lot of people thought solidbody guitars were a joke when they first came out,but fifty years later only a fool would say that.