Variax - what do you honestly think?

[freshmattyp]

Better hope you don't break a string.

I do occaisionally, but I can change out a string about as fast as I could switch guitars.

To respond to the need for different sounds, I don't play in a cover band. I play 2nd guitar in a country band, and need to switch between Tele, Gretsch, LP and acoustic sounds over the course of a show. I like the idea of being able to accomplish this with one guitar. YMMV.

 

[ROblows]

I do occaisionally, but I can change out a string about as fast as I could switch guitars.

You can take off the old string, install a new one, wind it and tune it in the time it takes to put one guitar down and pick another up?! I should hire you as my guitar tech.

 

[freshmattyp]

You can take off the old string, install a new one, wind it and tune it in the time it takes to put one guitar down and pick another up?! I should hire you as my guitar tech.

Locking tuners and a lot of practice. I used to break strings all the time until I switched to 12's. Please note, I did say "about" the same amount of time. I haven't broken out the stopwatch.

 

[Ed Dixon]

If I broke strings very often, I'd get a second Variax as the backup. However over about 40 yeras of playing I have yet to break a string playing live. I have a light touch. I have had others use my guitar while setting in and break a string. I carry extra strings and a winder in my gig back.

Ed

 

[Light]

The track record of VAX owners show a trend where the initial tryout in a music store went poorly, but later when they had time to work with it on their own gear, things really picked up.

Well, when I tried it I used my shop amp. I have played just about every electric guitar known to mankind through that amp, so I would say my test was just fine. It sucked.

My only experience is with the electric model. The acoustic is very different. However it seems good enough for The Edge of U2 to use it live.

Ed

What does that have to do with anything? No one plays acoustic guitar live. They play amplified guitar. What do you want to bet he does not use it in the studio, or when he is hanging out around the house.

And by the by, I don't really care if you are older than I, there is little question that I have more experience with great guitars. I do, after all, spend all day every day working on and with them. And I have been around them for 31 years.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[philboyd studge]

Well, when I tried it I used my shop amp. I have played just about every electric guitar known to mankind through that amp, so I would say my test was just fine. It sucked.

I thought everybody knew they sucked through guitar amps.

 

[ibanezrocks]

If you're going to say that they only sound good through a pod, then thankyou, you've saved me the time of trying one again.

 

[Ed Dixon]

And by the by, I don't really care if you are older than I, there is little question that I have more experience with great guitars. I do, after all, spend all day every day working on and with them. And I have been around them for 31 years.

Wrong on both counts. Working in a shop and playing live in front of people are not the same thing at all. I've been playing live for over 40 years, so save the claims about experience. They don't hold water.

If you're 31, then you have been around guitars for perhaps 15 or maybe 20 years. I really doubt you can claim the experience you had with guitars at age 1 are very meaningful.

There are thousands of performers that play live every day with acoustic guitars. Some just play. Some mic their guitar, some have pickups and others use yet other approaches. U2 is perhaps one of the most successful music groups in the last 20 years. They could clearly use anything they wanted. The fact that Edge uses a Variax Acoustic for live work is just that, a fact.

Ed

 

[ROblows]

U2 is perhaps one of the most successful music groups in the last 20 years. They could clearly use anything they wanted. The fact that Edge uses a Variax Acoustic for live work is just that, a fact.

By the same token, though, many people (even famous ones) use Ovations live (and some even in the studio). And that's nothing short of a crime against humanity.

 

[Light]

If you're 31, then you have been around guitars for perhaps 15 or maybe 20 years. I really doubt you can claim the experience you had with guitars at age 1 are very meaningful.

You really don't pay much attention do you? I was BORN into my shop. I have been there on a pretty much dally basis since I was very young, and if I am a bit hyperbolic at times, deal with it.

There are thousands of performers that play live every day with acoustic guitars.

How many truly great guitars have you played? Maybe, what, ten. If you really search them out, maybe as many as 50 (unless you are quite wealthy). I have played THOUSANDS. Literally.

Now, I am NOT saying you are wrong to like the Variax, though you seem to think you have more right to an opinion than I, which is of course crap. I am saying that I have played WAY more great guitars than most people can dream of. Have you ever played a really great pre-war D-28? I have played many. How about the world's best Gibson Advanced Jumbo? I have, it belongs to a friend of mine, and I am not exaggerating when I say it is the best. It may well be the best acoustic guitar ever made. Norman Blake offered my friend $15,000 for it, and was turn down. Or how about D’Angelico? Or an original Lloyd Loar L-5? A first year Tele? An original Selmer Macaferi? (Actually, they kind of suck, but they sure are right for gypsy jazz.)

I think my experience with great guitars has been well established on this forum, and I would prefer you not question my right to have my own OPINIONS.

All I have ever said about the fucking Vari-Ax is that I THINK THEY SUCK, which was the question we were all asked at the start of this thread. I have, yes, played them. I have also played all the guitars they are trying to "emulate." They don't come close, and NOTHING can recreate the sound of a great acoustic. Not even a great microphone in a great room with a great signal chain. It just can not be done. You can't get the sound of a great acoustic from the point source of a speaker. It is one of the real banes of guitar performances.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[ibanezrocks]

I dont think the Edge playing it proves its good, in fact a lot of people would be inclined to believe the opposite. He has never been recognized for a natural or classic rock sound, he's known for using effects, which is what line 6 is known for. What did you prove there? That they can appeal to their key demographic in an argument which has turned to the subject of the variax winning over new customers...
If there was a good guitarist with good tone using it then thered be an argument.

 

[Ed Dixon]

You really don't pay much attention do you? I was BORN into my shop. I have been there on a pretty much dally basis since I was very young, and if I am a bit hyperbolic at times, deal with it.

Actually I do, and I doubt you were born in your shop. Assuming it was owned by your family, you might remember being in the shop at an early age. That still equates to something line 20 or so years.

How many truly great guitars have you played? Maybe, what, ten. If you really search them out, maybe as many as 50 (unless you are quite wealthy). I have played THOUSANDS. Literally.

Having played a guitar once and having used it live in multiple places are not the same thing. I don’t doubt you have seen and worked on many fine instruments. That does not equate to live performance experience. NASCAR has many fine drivers, but virtually none of them build engines. The engine builders know much more about the engines, but the drivers know how to use them on the track.

I suspect your have a few minutes of time with a Variax. You’ re certainly welcome to your views and opinions.

Ed

 

[Ed Dixon]

By the same token, though, many people (even famous ones) use Ovations live (and some even in the studio). And that's nothing short of a crime against humanity.

I happen to like the sound of Ovation guitars (but can't play them myself as their narrow necks are too small for my fingers).

Ed

 

[Ed Dixon]

I dont think the Edge playing it proves its good, in fact a lot of people would be inclined to believe the opposite.

Generally agree. However I believe he is considered a professional, and given that he uses it, he probably considers it a professional instrument.

You might want to look at the artist list on the Line 6 site. There are a few pretty good names there.

The Variax is not for everyone. Like any guitar, it has it's pros and cons. For me, it has many more pros than cons. However guitars are a lot like cars. There is no single perfect automobile. Each person has different views and needs.

Ed

 

[ROblows]

You might want to look at the artist list on the Line 6 site. There are a few pretty good names there.

There's one guy on there who I've seen nearly a dozen times in the last couple of years, and I've never seen him use a VAX. He usually uses a 'Tele. Besides that, you can pick pretty much any guitar manufacturer in the world, no matter how good or how bad, and they undoubtedly have at least *somebody* famous endorsing thier product. That really says nothing about how good something is. Nor does the absence of endorsements mean that something is shit. I don't think endorsements carry any weight whatsoever with anybody who has any experience; maybe with a kid buying his first guitar, but not with anyone with enough experience to form their own judgement.

I also don't think that having 40 or 50 or even 100 years of experience makes your opinion any more valid than someone with 20 or 10 or even 5 years of experience. You may have a better basis than someone with very little playing time under his belt to make a judgement, but anybody who has played any significant amount of time on even a few different guitars of any quality has just as good a basis to form an opinion as to what makes a good guitar as you do.

 

[Ed Dixon]

There's one guy on there who I've seen nearly a dozen times in the last couple of years, and I've never seen him use a VAX. He usually uses a 'Tele. Besides that, you can pick pretty much any guitar manufacturer in the world, no matter how good or how bad, and they undoubtedly have at least *somebody* famous endorsing thier product. That really says nothing about how good something is. Nor does the absence of endorsements mean that something is shit. I don't think endorsements carry any weight whatsoever with anybody who has any experience; maybe with a kid buying his first guitar, but not with anyone with enough experience to form their own judgement.

I also don't think that having 40 or 50 or even 100 years of experience makes your opinion any more valid than someone with 20 or 10 or even 5 years of experience. You may have a better basis than someone with very little playing time under his belt to make a judgement, but anybody who has played any significant amount of time on even a few different guitars of any quality has just as good a basis to form an opinion as to what makes a good guitar as you do.

Yes that's true. Endorsements can come and go and some are clearly purchased. As you said, one really never knows whether they are meaningful or not. If one sees well known folks using a product in real life, that is usually somewhat more meaningful.

In my case endorsements did not play a factor in my decision to purchase the Variax. I instead listened to the comments of other owners who had real experience with the guitar. I emailed some with similar situations to see how well it had worked for them. I felt that those comments were of value to me in making a purchase decision.

Each of us does have an opinion and we each offer our views. My views are based on actually owning a Variax and performing with it in a variety of live and recording environments. I also own a number of other classic guitars that have also been used over the decades in the same environments. That does provide me some real basis upon which to form an opinion, based on extended actual use of the different products being considered.

It’s a little like buying a TV. Do you listen to the advertisements that tout how well it works? Do you listen to the sale guy who tells you it’s the best thing since sliced bread? Or do you try and find others who actually bought the same TV and find out how well it worked for them? Many find that the last approach can be more effective.

Ed

 

[guhlenn]

What I read here is

"variax is great for practical reasons"

and

"variax sucks compared to the real thing"

Aren't both true?

I've used the POD alot. and boy oh boy, it sucks compared my tube amps. But for recording tunes in my attic, it rocks. I don't have to place mic's etc.

 

[philboyd studge]

What I read here is

"variax is great for practical reasons"

and

"variax sucks compared to the real thing"

Aren't both true?

I've used the POD alot. and boy oh boy, it sucks compared my tube amps. But for recording tunes in my attic, it rocks. I don't have to place mic's etc.

That's not too far off. It took awhile to figure out and warm up to my Variax acoustic and its being a solid body acoustic/electric wasn't the problem, I'd had a lot of experience with solid Gibsons. Till I got a Bose PAS it never sounded right live .....turns out Line 6 and Bose were in cahoots in development. Plug it flat and it sounds like it ought to.

I've got a bunch of good and vintage instruments so lets just compare one of them....a first year Bozeman Gibson J-200.
Does the Variax sound better live? Yes. Actually that's not fair, there's only so much you can do with a Baggs pickup and then there's feedback to deal with. Does It's the only guitar I have that gets used for both live and recording.

Guitarists for some reason tend to be among the most traditional minded people in music, but things change from time to time and new concepts are often worth investigating. I can Variax's evolving to many more onboard features. Will modeling guitars change everything? I hope not, they're just tools. Nor are they for everyone. I can't think of a single guitar playing friend I'd reccomend it to because they already have their sound. Being a multi instrumentalist makes me a much better candidate.

Being drug around to there spots when I was little I remember when the Fender Telecaster was coming on line to the dance combos in LA and Orange counties and my father among others calling them 'stick' guitars and how they sounded like tin cans.

 

[Ed Dixon]

QUOTE=guhlenn]What I read here is "variax sucks compared to the real thing"[/QUOTE]

Opinions vary on this point. Most of the folks that own them have a more positive view. Many of the folks that don't own one, have a less positive view. Some who post here have, by their own words, never played one at all.

No one would argue that the instrument quality (wood, finish, playability, etc) of the Variax is on par with the classic instruments that it models. It's not.

Sound is more subjective. I have a Variax 500. I also have a Les Paul Custom (70s vintage), a Fender Telecaster (67), a Fender Stratocastor (70s), a Gibson Lucille (80s vintage), and a PRS Custom 24 (2003 vintage). I have played all live for many years. I however prefer the Variax for both live and recording use, as among other things, it is much quieter than any of the rest.

Is it identical to the sound of the others.., no. However for my use it is plenty close enough, and the advantage of no noise is hard to explain until you’re played without it.

Is it suitable for all others who want these sounds… probably not. Each has to try it and see if it meets their needs.

As I said earlier, my in-store tryout went very poorly, which based on comments of others seems to be somewhat common. I was very unimpressed. However the comments I was receiving via emails from other owners who had similar needs were positive enough that I bought one anyway. I don’t regret that decision at all.

It’s sometimes interesting to watch pros on TV concert series. Many will use multiple classic guitars throughout the concert. When they finish one song, where a change is required, they turn around and hand the current guitar to someone who is standing there with the other guitar ready to go. They don’t have to worry about it being in tune, set the wrong way or not connected to wireless. That is all handled by the stage folks.

Most of the rest of us don’t live in that world. We play in small areas where there may be no room for even a second guitar. We play in praise and worship bands where not only is their little space, but little time between songs for any change. We have limited budgets and looks for sound options involving less $. We record in small home studios where sound and noise are major factors in the ability to record anything. These are some places where a Variax offers some advantages over other choices.

Ed

 

[boomtap]

I would wager that in 10 years every major brand will have some sort of digital guitar. I think this is only the begining. It will get better with time for sure, but the tech has too much up side escpecially with there being a digital studio in every basement and spare bedroom accross the world.