V76t vs V69

Dracon

Dracon

New member
According to MXL

The V69 stats -
Type: Condenser pressure gradient mic with large 25mm diaphragm capsile
Frequency Range: 20Hz-18kHz
Polar Pattern: Cardioid
Sensitivity: 22mV/Pa
Impedance: 200W
S/N Ratio: 72dB (Ref. 1Pa A-weighted)
Equivalent Noise Level: 22dB (A weighted IEC 268-4)
Max SPL for 0.5% THD: 140dB
Power Requirements: 110/220 Vac, 50-60Hz
Size: 50mm x 190mm
Weight: 1lb
Metal Finish: Black/Gold

The V76t stats -
Type: Condenser pressure gradient mic with a 25mm, 6-micron diaphragm
Frequency Range: 30Hz – 20kHz
Polar Pattern: Cardioid
Max SPL for 0.5% THD: 122dB
Sensitivity: 38 MV/pa
Output impedance: 200 ohms
Equivalent Noise Level: 22 db (A-weighted IEC 268-4)
Size: 48mm x 195mm
Weight: 525g
Power Requirement: 120/240V 50/60hz
Metal Finish: Silver / Chrome

What I find interesting here is that they do not give a Signal to Noise ration on the V76t while they do on the V69 (as well as the V67G). However, the frequency response graph at their website shows a much smoother graph (with a peak at 15K) for the V69 while the graph of the V76t is not as smooth.

However, what I didn't find at their website was if either, both or neither of these tube mics came with their tubes soldered? Anyone know, would I benefit from say changing the grille & the tubes on a 76t enough to warrant the change?
 
...neither have the tubes soldered...socket mounted and tubes easily swapped out...a grill change would'nt be worth the effort IMHO...V69 is a bit darker sounding than the V76t and is the most popular of the current tube MXL mics (V77s is their best reviewed tube mic but still currently out of production although rumoured to be re-issued in the future at some point)...

...by the way, the Nady TCM-1100 was originally manufactured by the same company that made the MXL V77s (797audio) and shared the same exact design:
http://www.nady.com/tcm1100_tubemics_pg.html
...current versions of the TCM-1100 are no longer manufactured by 797audio in China (who also make Studio Projects) so I can't vouch for their still being the identical design, although they still look the same as the V77s...

...the Nady tube mics are a less expensive alternative to the MXL mics...here's a nice deal on eBay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/NADY-TCM-1050-T...ryZ41466QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
 
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I believe that both microphones have the same S/N ratio.

The S/N ratio is defined as the SPL of 1Pa (which is 94dB) minus the equivalent noise level. So, for the V76t it's 94 - 22 = 72dB and again for the V69 it's 94 - 22 = 72dB.

What I find interesting is the discrepancies in the specs:
1. Impedance of V69 quoted as 200Watts
2. Sensitivity of V76t quoted in Mega volts/Pa (that's a lot of juice)
3. The weights are quoted in imperial for V69 and metric for V76t!

I could complain about the voltage requirements too, but that might be splitting hairs :D

I guess I question the integrity of many manufacturer's specifications - especially companies with a reputation for budget gear. A lot of the time the specs are twisted to make them appear both superior to other products and attractive to those who may not know exactly what they mean. In theory this is why we have standards (it's worth checking which standards the company uses - if they disclose that!) but it only takes an alternative standard to make comparing specs that bit harder. IMO it's better to try to hear the equipment first although obviously this is often impractical.

Anyway, I found this PDF which may be of use to yourself, or anyone else looking at mic specs: reading mic specs

Enjoy!
 
Hey pezking,

Thanks for the very good info and I hadn't noticed they messed up on the impedance and put Watts instead of ohms.

I'll read that article about mic specs.
 
DPA have a whole load of "Microphone University" articles. Not sure if they're of any use as I haven't read any others yet, but they're found at http://www.dpamicrophones.com/ and then by clicking on "Microphone University" - might be worth checking out.
 
Hey pezking,

Thanks for the link. I read a little bit but I have been traveling and will spend some time looking at that link when I get home.

I apologize for not replying earlier but I've been traveling for the past three days (literally).
 
V69?!?

Hey Folks,

I was finally able to listen to Mr. Gerst's recording - http://www.thelisteningsessions.com/sessions.htm - from his studio in which he has plenty of microphones, preamps, soundboards, etc.

Granted I was listening to the recordings through my laptop speakers and may not be able to notice the difference between the equipment. However, I suppose that's really what is all about isn't it?

The music is not just as good as all the components that are used to record it but also those that are used to listen to the music. I compared the V67 against the V69. Although, in the recording studio and while monitoring the sound probably varies greatly when you listen to them via laptop speakers the difference is so small it may not even warrant the expenditure to get one or the other if already own one.

This is basically going to what Harvey always says in his posts. Yes, it is great to have a Neve board, with a U87 mic, great acoustic room as well as a wonderful performer. However, the bottom line is how we use that equipment and how well we know that equipment. Sure you need the right tool to do the job but you don't necessarily need the specific brand name of that tool.

While it is nice to have the Sears wrenches or the Snap-on Tools wrenches (mostly professional) you can perform the same job with the same quality and (if you have enough experience) and speed with the Kobalt brand from Lowe's.

I'm not trying to degrade the great tools out there, just trying to give Harvey the credit it is due to him for his experience. We can all spend millions of dollars in tools but if we barely know how to use them or how they sound they will not do much good when we record.
 
Dracon said:
While it is nice to have the Sears wrenches or the Snap-on Tools wrenches (mostly professional) you can perform the same job with the same quality and (if you have enough experience) and speed with the Kobalt brand from Lowe's.
Click to expand...

But if you are able to do it with the crapper stuff - when you use pro stuff, i.e. your neve desk, u87 etc. it will sound that much better. I know that for a fact, from experience.

Anyways I'm off on holiday for a week. See you guys next week!
 
Dracon said:
Hey Folks,

I was finally able to listen to Mr. Gerst's recording - http://www.thelisteningsessions.com/sessions.htm - from his studio in which he has plenty of microphones, preamps, soundboards, etc.

This is basically going to what Harvey always says in his posts. Yes, it is great to have a Neve board, with a U87 mic, great acoustic room as well as a wonderful performer.

I'm not trying to degrade the great tools out there, just trying to give Harvey the credit it is due to him for his experience.
Click to expand...
Uhh, but those aren't my recordings, and they sure as hell weren't done in my studio. I don't even own a Neve or a U87. I think that's Dan Richard's site.

However, I think you've summed up my sentiments very nicely on this subject.

If you wanna hear my stuff, here's a link to a Christian Funk group I did a week or so ago:

http://www.myspace.com/jasonglasser

I can tell you everything I used on that cut (if anybody's interested).
 
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Harvey Gerst said:
Uhh, but those aren't my recordings, and they sure as hell weren't done in my studio. I don't even own a Neve or a U87. I think that's Dan Richard's site.

However, I think you've summed up my sentiments very nicely on this subject.

If you wanna hear my stuff, here's a link to a Christian Funk group I did a week or so ago:

http://www.myspace.com/jasonglasser

I can tell you everything I used on that cut (if anybody's interested).
Click to expand...

raises hand in interest.......
 
Harvey Gerst said:
I can tell you everything I used on that cut (if anybody's interested).
Click to expand...
I'm game. That's a really nice track, Harvey. Arrangement, performance, mix. I'd love to get your info.

BTW, I assume that the slideshow pics were taken in your studio, no?

It reminds me I need to make more bass traps. :)
 
Okay, it was a pretty standard setup:

Drums
Kick: ATM25
Snare: SM57
High Hat: MXL 603
Overheads: MSH Omnis
Toms: Sennheiser 604's

Guitar
Pedal board direct to board

Bass
Direct into board

Keyboard
Mono direct into board for piano and organ, stereo for horn stabs

Heather Vocals
Scratch track: Beyer Soundstar Mk II
Final: MXL 190

Backup Vocals
MXL 190

Session Notes
I had Chris (the guitarist) lay down two rhythm tracks which I panned left and right. His solos went to a 3rd track.

Jemal played a mono keyboard track, then we added an organ track, then stereo horn stabs.

On our first recording pass, I recorded drums, bass, rhythm guitar, keyboard, and Heather singing a scratch track. Then I recorded a second rhythm guitar track. Next, I added an organ track, then a stereo horns track.

We brought in all the 3 backup singers (including Heather as a 4th) and I had them lay down 4 backup tracks to give me 16 voices. I moved them around after each take to give me a different vocal density for each track and I didn't let them hear the previous tracks in their phones. On the 4th pass, I just told them to sing whatever they felt like singing.

I had Heather sing a final vocal on the MXL 190, but her scratch vocal had so much more drive, I just used that and didn't worry about the bleed from the speakers. I did use some of the call and responses from the 190 track mixed in with the scratch track.

Finally, Chris laid down some lead guitar stuff that sat behind Heather's vocals and that was it.

The whole session took about 5 hours, and we mixed the next day in about 2 hours. I used RNC compressors on the vocal, snare, keyboard, organ, and horn tracks to even out the levels. The main reverb was the Lexicon Alex on setting #6 (small room) and I added some reverb during mastering with the Ozone.

Did I leave anything out?
 
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Gidge said:
Which board, Topaz or MCI?.....
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Topaz. The whole session was in Studio B. Drums, Bass, and guitar were in the studio, Heather and the Keyboard player were in the control room with me.
 
pezking said:
But if you are able to do it with the crapper stuff - when you use pro stuff, i.e. your neve desk, u87 etc. it will sound that much better. I know that for a fact, from experience.

Anyways I'm off on holiday for a week. See you guys next week!
Click to expand...
That's exactly my point pezking. Yes it is nice to have the great tool (and although my simile may not be appropriate) I'm certainly not arguing against them by any means. In no way am I suggesting that Rolls Royce is the same quality vehicle as a Honda but they both perform the same job. All I am saying is that you do not need a Rolls Royce if you barely know how to drive, but you can do just as well to learn with a Honda.

Also, owning say a Rolls Royce is not the same as owning a Viper or Lamborghini for that matter. Once again, I am was not trying to take away from the quality of the higher end tools like Neve or those top end tools. ;)
 
Harvey Gerst said:
Uhh, but those aren't my recordings, and they sure as hell weren't done in my studio. I don't even own a Neve or a U87. I think that's Dan Richard's site.

However, I think you've summed up my sentiments very nicely on this subject.

If you wanna hear my stuff, here's a link to a Christian Funk group I did a week or so ago:

http://www.myspace.com/jasonglasser

I can tell you everything I used on that cut (if anybody's interested).
Click to expand...

Sorry Harvey I was not trying to mis-represent you. I thought it was your website but that's what happens when you assume. My apologies, and I will listen to your recordings.

It would be nice to know what chain you used as well.
 
Hey Harvey,
I looked at the other e-mail and saw the recording chain. Not that I'm too surprised but I do see you have a few MXL mics in your tool kit. For a noob it is nice to know that pros do use something other than the Audio Technica, Blue or other high end mics.
 
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