Using tape for saturation

The reason I bought a tape deck is so that I won't need complicated digital tricks or use crappy sounding emulation plug-ins to get a digital version of what tape sounds like.

It sounds like what you are doing is simply compressing, and then boosting high end. can't you get the same effect with a multi-band compressor?

I've never heard the term "jitter" in reference to tape decks. I'm willing to bet that term did not come into widespread use in discussions of audio engineering until the advent of digital.
 
Jitter is what you get when you snort meth. Tape has wow and flutter. Thanks for the link to Swami Knows though, it's so hard to find a good on-line swami.
 
Hi_Flyer said:
It sounds like what you are doing is simply compressing, and then boosting high end. can't you get the same effect with a multi-band compressor?
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There is no high end. You can't boost or compress something which doesn't exist. Check my example, load it into an editor and look at the spectral view.

Actually if there is enough high end left to work with, a combination of expansion and compression works great to get a clear sound while hiding the tape noise and keeping a reasonable dynamic at the same time. I restored a lot of rare cassette tapes (which are significantly worse than reel to reel tapes), among them are many audio plays which aren't available on vinyl either. I certainly know how such things work. I even do the Dolby decoding on the digital domain, thus I can correct tape degration ahead.
 
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LogicDeLuxe said:
There is no high end. You can't boost or compress something which doesn't exist.
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I'll back Logic up on this one. If I understand correctly, the key to his method is the use of the ring modulator. He's using the RM to synthesize some of the lower-order harmonics of the still-existing lower-frequency signals. Then he high-passes that to keep only the higher-frequency harmonics, and mixes them back into the original. This not only synthesizes extra high frequency information that has been lost, but does so without directly touching the HF niose level itself (unless or until one affects it with compression or gain.)

I still disagree with the misuse of the term "jitter" in the context of analog information, though :). Jitter is a different type of effect altogether than the pitch flutter caused by a variance in the playback speed of an analog-only tape.

G.
 
OK, I get what you guys are saying about synthesizing high frequency harmonics that aren't there. not too hard to understand. but I thought the original poster was asking about tape saturation, not audio restoration? how is this relevant? If you have a decent deck with good frequency response, why would it be necessary to synthesize frequencies that aren't there?

high end boost and sythesized high frequencies are not typically associated with the sound of analog tape, if anything the opposite is usually true.
 
chessrock said:
You guys are all just a bunch of genuses.

:D
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genus
noun genera, genuses

1. biol.
In taxonomy: any of the groups, eg Canis (the dogs), into which a family (sense 7) is divided and which in turn is subdivided into one or more species (sense 1).
2. A class divided into several subordinate classes.
 
LogicDeLuxe said:
I even do the Dolby decoding on the digital domain, thus I can correct tape degration ahead.
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I would REALLY be interested in your processing chain for decoding Dolby digitally. Do you have encoding mapped out digitally too?
 
Reggie said:
I would REALLY be interested in your processing chain for decoding Dolby digitally.
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That's secret.
Do you have encoding mapped out digitally too?
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No. I don't master for tape.
What would be the point anyways? You just turn on the encoder when recording the master tape. You don't have to deal with degraded tapes in this direction.
 
masteringhouse said:
genus
noun genera, genuses

1. biol.
In taxonomy: any of the groups, eg Canis (the dogs), into which a family (sense 7) is divided and which in turn is subdivided into one or more species (sense 1).
2. A class divided into several subordinate classes.
Click to expand...


irony; i·ro·ny - 1. the use of words to convey a meaning that is the opposite of its literal meaning.
2. Literature. a. a technique of indicating, as through character or plot development, an intention or attitude opposite to that which is actually or ostensibly stated.
b. (esp. in contemporary writing) a manner of organizing a work so as to give full expression to contradictory or complementary impulses, attitudes, etc.,
3. an objectively or humorously sardonic utterance, disposition, quality, etc.
 
chessrock said:
irony; i·ro·ny - 1. the use of words to convey a meaning that is the opposite of its literal meaning.
2. Literature. a. a technique of indicating, as through character or plot development, an intention or attitude opposite to that which is actually or ostensibly stated.
b. (esp. in contemporary writing) a manner of organizing a work so as to give full expression to contradictory or complementary impulses, attitudes, etc.,
3. an objectively or humorously sardonic utterance, disposition, quality, etc.
Click to expand...

Rice-I-Rony

noun Pasta-I-Rony

1. A San Francisco treat.
 
Last edited:
It also might help to check the date on which any given "definition" is submitted to a wikiality site before citing that definition in public.
Main Entry: butt
Part of Speech: noun 2
Definition: joke object
Synonyms: chump*, clay pigeon*, derision, dupe*, easy mark*, fall guy, fool, goat, jest, jestee*, joke, laughing stock, mark, mock, patsy, pigeon*, point, sap, setup*, sitting duck*, softie*, sport, subject, sucker, target, turkey, victim
Source: Roget's New Millennium™ Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.3.1)
Copyright © 2007 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.
* = informal or slang
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G.
 
pathdoc said:
Anyone here running tracks into a tape machine from their DAW? I've been thinking of running a stereo mix of drums into a 1/4 real to real and then back into my computer in an attempt to capture a more saturated sound.
Also, do most mastering houses go to tape during any stage of the mastering process?
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Yeah, sure, it happens sometimes. I don't do it for processing tracks, but just as a 2-mix recorder.

Cheers,

Otto
 
LogicDeLuxe said:
That's secret.No. I don't master for tape.
What would be the point anyways? You just turn on the encoder when recording the master tape. You don't have to deal with degraded tapes in this direction.
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Oh yeah, of course it's top secret...:rolleyes:
I'm interested in a digital encoder because I actually do make digital (CD-ROM) masters for mass tape duplication, and it would save a lot of time vs real-time encoding. I have my doubts that your supposed decoding methods would be all that accurate, but I see now you are full of beans anyway, so nevermind.
 
I'm going to have to listen to that ring modulation approach. The trick to a modulator of course is the modulus signal, it could add lots of non-harmonic distortion too.

I have never used this technique on a mix, but for individual instruments it can be kinda cool as an effect. For example, you can convert a female vocal into a male, and vice versa, and make a regular guitar sound like a 12-string. Or you can make a flute sound like a reed instrument; oboe or bagpipes or whatever.

The key is use in moderation:

For adding harmonics: take the original signal and low-pass it, frequency is source dependent, but the idea is to cut off all the higher-order harmonics. Anywhere from 1kHz to 4khz might do.

Next, use a pitch shift algorithm to raise the pitch an octave. Then, mix with the original signal, only enough to add the effect you want. Anything much more than -9dB to the original is going to be very noticeable.

For the vocal tricks: male to female, low-pass the original signal pretty severely, even below 1kHz. This will cut off all the overtones that create richness in a male vocal. Next, shift the pitch up to the female range, a fifth or whatever. You will have a purer tone like a female voice would have; it avoids the "chipmunk" syndrome. Female to male, use the harmonic technique above to add overtones to the vocal that is pitch-shifted down.

It's never something that you'd want to use on a lead, but if you want to create a four-part harmony by yourself, it can be somewhat convincing.

On a mix though . . . I dunno, usually it helps to cover your footsteps with a bunch of regular ol' tracks . . .

Oh, also since I am just a VST loser, I use the UAD Space Echo for a "tape" effect. Set with reverb off, and a single short-period echo, it adds a bit of dirt as it simulates a tape delay. You can render and line up the echo track with the original. I wouldn't call it saturation though. More of a lo-fi grunge vibe.
 
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