Using J-Station With Bass?

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bongolation

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Anybody doing it successfully? People claim to.

One of the selling points for the J-Station over the POD was that the J-Station was specifically set up to do bass with "models" (yeah, and what does that REALLY mean, anyway?) of several different bass cabinets and Ampeg SVT, Trace Elliot and SWR bass heads.

I was playing around with it last night with the standard AKG K-240DF studio headphones and everything pretty much sounded like shit.

I assume I'm doing something wrong.
 
I'd like to hear people's opinions on this too.
I just got a nice bass to track with in my studio, and I am looking for something to run it through.
So far, I've just been going through the (gulp) POD. I've been putting it on the "Tube" amp setting and using a little compression. It sounds alright, but could be much better.
I'm a little leary of the J-Station. Usually when a manufacturer chops the price of a product like Johnson just did, it's a good sign there's trouble. I've heard many raves about the SansAmp Bass Driver, but I've never heard it myself, and I don't think it has a built in compressor, which I would really like. I think the BassPOD is just way more than I need.
I just want a nice easy device with good tone and built in compression.
Reccomendations?

Aaron
http://www.aaroncheney.com
 
I have j-station and(I'm a guitarist primarily) a bass I tried with it.The unit is 90% plus guitar oriented but there are about 3 or so bass "models".The patch called "Modern Rock Delay" (I believe) is my favorite one.
I demo'd the pod first but chose j-station for:
S/PDIF 24 bit interface
5 simultanious effects
footswitchable with any midi/cc pedal
deep level editing from front panel

There were other features but those were the ones that floated my boat.

Tom
 
I'm also mainly a guitar player that records my own bass for backing tracks. I got the J-Station just for bass recording (I use a Cyber-Twin for guitar..) I also have a SansAmp Bass DI which I wouldn't call a "modeling" box or whatever. For me the SansAmp just adds tube tone and feel to a solid state rig. Though it is great to use as an EQ for any type of rig. Compared to running a bass amp direct out or even the SansAmp by itself, I like the J-Station better. I havent tried running the SansAmp to the J-Station but I plan on doing so soon.
 
So you prefer the J-Station? Hmmm.... perhaps I'll have to give it a listen. My all time favorite bass sound is off the Journey "Escape" Album. Of course, it all depends of the song.

Anyway, I hear those Cyber-twins are freakin' animals! I haven't had a chance to hear one yet, but it sounds like I've got to give one of them a listen too. Ka-ching!

Aaron
http://www.aaroncheney.com
 
Here's my opinion/I have just re-read what I wrote, I got a bit off topic, but worth a look even if only for a cheap laugh.

The j-station's strength's are the pod's weaknesses.

First of all I have a POD pro and am about to buy a J-station as well for the right price of course (and yes I would prefer a collection of tube amps but don't get into that; were talking about a budget (well I am), space, my bad back (carrying around 10 amps) etc).

Lets get one thing straight. The Pod lacks in realistic reverb. Many people have sited this as a reason for not buying it. The J-station's main selling point on the effect front is the host of reverbs it offers. They are better than the POD's (in my opinion). The J station has bass patches (the topic of the thread), the POD doesn't. The J station has acoustic patches and an auto wah, again lacking in the POD (some would argue no need for acoustic simulation (ie record an acoustic) but a nice added option (incidentaly (sp) the acoustic patches have been likened to the boss acoustic simulator (just short of the price of the J station these days; anyway); shit I'm getting lost.

The J stations distorted sounds are not up to the standard of the POD's in the main part (though maybe some exceptions) and on clean sounds; well I'm not sure yet, I'll have to see.

The bass POD has had very dissapointing reviews, many say the J station's (tweaked) bass patches are better than the bass pod altogether (I myself wanted to like the bass pod as I grew to love the pod, but they need to work on that). The sans amp bass driver was/is also an option but as I am primarily a guitarist I will compromise here.

The J station through headphones (by the way I have the same AKG's) is a weakness as it sounds particualrly muddy I have been told.

I think I'll buy the J station and put it in the effects loop of my POD pro. I have an S/PDIF out on my POD pro also, you can use both units with a pc/via midi.

I must just again mention that I would of course prefer the 'real' thing but realistically we shouldn't be too critical of products this good for the price. The outcome in my opinion is marginal when properly used,
Krystof.
 
OK, I'll keep messing with it. I've just started fooling around with the deep-level editing (which is quite remarkable), which should help. At my $124 price from GC last Memorial Day, I think the J-Station is sort of a decent device, though most of the shredder sounds drive me up a wall. I think of it as about $1500 worth of stupid Boss effects pedals gone through a trash compactor.

The one criticism I have heard of the J-Station and POD which seems to be valid is that they really kill one's subtle "clean" playing technique in clean modes, though this may be a function of gate/comp settings, I dunno. This isn't a big issue in bass.

Probably my favorite amp model is their Vox AC30, which sounds OK with either bass or guitar, depending on which cabinet model you choose. The blackface Fender Twin setting (which seems like nothing in the world but the "Vox AC30" patch with a little more treble) is also OK. The acoustic models, which are ridiculous for guitar, can be made to sound OK with bass.

The big question in my mind is what "modelling" actually consists of; did they, for example, ever have a Vox AC30 around and wired up to some NASA computer when they made that patch, or is this just some arbitrary name association for some patch they dreamed up out of nowhere?

I can't help having the mental image of a couple of giggling knuckleheads smoking dope and tweaking a bunch knobs and trying to decide what the resulting sound reminded them of.
 
'Modelling' is what they do at line 6 I know. They do as I understand have the 'real' equipment and take it all apart, see what every component does etc.

Simulation on the other hand is more on par with the latter statement you mentioned.

I think that's the right way round, I seem to remember reading something that basically stated this.
 
I plug my ric 4001 into a J station live at my church direct into the PA and it sounds great....better than any sound I have got using small bass amps, etc. I have the POD too, but that is better for guitar. Like someone else said, the J is the POD's weaknesses...and kinda visa versa. I'd get both...no complaints from owning both here. The J is better for live too, as the presets seem easier to get to, faster.
 
me 3

Okay,
just thought i'd throw my $.02 into this mix...

I have the j-station, i (don't hurt me) am mostly a drummer, but have been playing the git-fiddle for about 10 years and bass for about half that... anyway, i use the j for about 75% git (les paul standard) and 28% bass (ha ha, paying attention?) using an acoustic/electric Washburn 4-string bass. Its a nice guitar, and when run through the j-station (I use mostly the "british" amp).... i usually have to do quite a lot of tweaking... mostly involving compression (outboard compression, the j-station compression is a little strange... i think anyway).

After all is said and done... just playing through my event 20/20's it sounds great... the problem with the j and a bass is when recording. It gets rather challenge (at least for me) to record this... it ends up very "punchy" and often is lost... because... well, is there ANY substitute for a decent mic'd cabinet?

So... what was i talking about? what the hell was my point!!! I can't remember... umm... j-station is good for guitars and so-so for bass. heh... that was useful eh?
 
Re: me 3

minusone said:
well, is there ANY substitute for a decent mic'd cabinet?
Click to expand...

Most bass tracks these days are recorded direct, or direct mixed with a mic'ed cab. Very few are mic'ed cab only, at least in my experience.

So you think the J-Station bass sounds are too punchy? Hmmm....

I guess the only way I'm gonna figure this out is to try one myself. Go figure.

Aaron
http://www.aaroncheney.com
 
yes, i have been in many situations in the studio where going direct was what was done... but i have never liked that sound... or more to the point, i have never liked the way it was done in the situations i have been in.

if the bass player has a good rig, that, for me, has always sounded much better... especially for the type of music we tended to record (emo-core-ish)... where a big heavy booming bass was not the answer. Listen to bands like Jawbox or Jets To Brazil, that is the bass sound we typically go after.

The j-station comes close to that approximation, but, with all of the tweaking (and not tweaking) with the bass I use, it just is too "direct" sounding. Yeah, that is it... its too direct. i like the mic'd sound... less perfection, more "chaos" as it were (i.e. air moving, room dynamics etc).
 
# Most bass tracks these days are recorded direct...

Always were - there's a great old story about Ike Turner throwing one of his famous production fits during a session, yanking the plug out of the bass amp and angrily jamming it into the board and announcing, "THAT'S how you record BASS!!!" 8-)

Probably wind up being the way I do it too when it all comes down to it. Maybe mic the acoustic sound of the playing on another track and fiddle with some plug-ins in the mix. (shrug)
 
# So you think the J-Station bass sounds are too punchy?
# Hmmm....

# I guess the only way I'm gonna figure this out is to try one
# myself. Go figure.

Bring a lunch, Aaron.

These take a LOT of time to suss out. They are set up with presets that are really godawful and ghastly, overdone and extreme to impress shredders/buyers in a noisy store environment. I was really put off by this until I started looking at the more advanced options. There are some very interesting tweaks that are only available in the "deep editing" mode, such as the cabinet models and complex reverb setups, etc.

You can play around with one of these _forever_.

The rumor is that Johnson is working on a new version, so the J-Station as we know it is now heavily discounted to the price of a couple of cheap effect pedals. I got mine on sale at GC for $124...out of curiosity more than anything else.

It appears to me that you really can get some useful and tasteful sounds out of these and so getting one at long discount is probably worth it. I doubt I would have ever considered on at the original $445 price.
 
I have a J-station, although I am happy with most of the sounds, they do get a little muddy going through head phones. I have play out with it, going through a mixer, the difference was great. I haven't recorded any bass with it yet, but I have played my bass through it and used the phones. I think it was way too garbled (probably the result of my cheap ass head phones). I'm sure the bass would sound alot better if the J-station was running into a mixer.


Now for a dumb question. My bass has active pickups. This won't hurt the J-station in any way, will it? The reason I ask is, I was using it for my bass a couple months ago, and the thing just stopped working. I sent it back to the company, and they fixed it good as new and sent it back. I haven't plugged my bass into it since. Do you think my active pickups could have fried something? Or did I just get a messed up J-station?


Thanks
P
 
I can't answer that question specifically but all I would say is that it wouls be a 'piss poor' company that made a product to be used with a bass guitar and not to work with one. If it has nothing in the manual about this then carry on using it (always good to have volumes down when pluggin anything into anything else by the way (even direct)). You want to use it as much as you can in this way if it's still under warranty 'cus then you can complain, get a new one etc. If you wait until the warranty is up then your stuck with a product that doesn't work properly. If you can, try another bass with it (maybe take it along to a nearby store).

Oh yeh and while your there, buy some decent headphones (it will still sound muddy but not as much),

Krystof.
 
# I think it was way too garbled (probably the result of my cheap
# ass head phones). I'm sure the bass would sound alot better if
# the J-station was running into a mixer.

Isn't that doing an extra dreaded D/A-A/D conversion? My impression was that it was properly to go from digital out straight to the digital in on the computer/card.

Anyway, as to the other questions, an ACTIVE bass seems to me that it _could_ damage the J-Station, which has some pretty glaring oversights in the foolproof department anyway, namely the way you can fry a MIDI card (or worse) with the MIDI/J8 switch in the wrong position and the most egregious juxtapositioning of the 1/4" Stereo Headphone out jack immediately next to the 1/4" Mono Instrument In jack. Plugging a mono 1/4" plug into the stereo Headphone Out will blow the headphone amp circuit according to the instructions.

On the various discussion venues, I have read of people actually doing both of these burn-downs and a couple of others as well.

My current worry is the power supply that gets too hot to touch in use. What's THAT all about?
 
Ok, I listened to dabluesman's mp3. I had just bought a J-Station about a month ago or so. The bass does not sound too bad, but I prefer a sound that has a bit more growl to it (A.K.A. Dynamics). The bass sounds from the J-Station seem a little too sterile. I guess they would work better with a song whose main instrument is the keyboard, but when you but that bass sound with a real guitar, it just does not cut it. For songs that are guitar driven, I prefer to go direct through my Peavey Session Bass.
 
Remember though, I didn't record the J-Station alone. I ran the SansAmp Bass DI before it. That enabled me to EQ it more than you can with the J-Station alone and it added the tube "roundness" that you can hear. This is also my first attempt to record with the SansAmp and the J-Station togeather. I did try before with just the J-Station and it was no where close compared to what I ended up with by using both units. I am still getting use to the J-Station so the tone should improve as time goes on.
 
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