TheComposer
New member
Hello, I'll be recording drums soon and I was wondering, if I have the chance to use more than 2 or 3 consender mics, should I do it??
Using extra condenser mics for cymbals, good idea?
- Thread starter TheComposer
- Start date
Steenamaroo
...
You can always put up additional mics then choose not to use them in the mix if you don't like what they add.
If you have the extra channels and you think you might learn something from it, do it.
Just make sure your core setup is good so you aren't relying on these extra mics.
If you have the extra channels and you think you might learn something from it, do it.
Just make sure your core setup is good so you aren't relying on these extra mics.
R
RAMI
Guest
EDIT:
Oops...never mind. I misread the question.
Oops...never mind. I misread the question.
JimmyS1969
MOODerator
You can always put up additional mics then choose not to use them in the mix if you don't like what they add.
If you have the extra channels and you think you might learn something from it, do it.
Just make sure your core setup is good so you aren't relying on these extra mics.
Agreed.
I will add here to the importance of getting the basics down first.
Early on I tried using 'spot' mics on drum recordings. I eventually found that that can make things chaotic without understanding the basics of what you are hearing. Two overhead mics are #1 IMO. Anything after that is in support of them.
Then decide what you need. There are so many other variables that will help make the recording sound good before you even get to the microphones. Room, instrument, player, monitoring...
Bobbsy
Boring Old Git
Since you don't tell us what you use now, it's hard to judge what "more" means in your case.
Two condensers on overheads are generally more than enough for cymbals. If you want to add another one, the snare is always something that works well--sometimes just the top, sometimes top and bottom, depending on what sound you like.
...and, of course, something on the kick--but that'll almost certainly be a dynamic.
Two condensers on overheads are generally more than enough for cymbals. If you want to add another one, the snare is always something that works well--sometimes just the top, sometimes top and bottom, depending on what sound you like.
...and, of course, something on the kick--but that'll almost certainly be a dynamic.
That doesn't even mean anything. Less does not equal more. If you don't actually have an answer or know how to record drums, just don't say anything.
Steen's response nails it. Try it, use it if it's good, scrap it if it sucks.
My guess is it will suck. Odds are you will introduce phase problems that won't do you any favors. Stick with a traditional stereo overhead setup and leave the silly experiments for something else.
even in punk less=more, in classical, jazz pop, everything, it's a philosophy... GET IT NOW?
I get the philosophy. What it doesn't do is shed any light on the question at hand. This isn't a philosophical situation. It doesn't apply in this case because less isn't more. "Less is more" is a generic, scripted thing to say in this instance and means nothing. The stupid internet mantra that "all you need is two mics for drums!" is grossly overblown and frankly pretty stupid.
In the case of overhead mics, less would be less, less could be to few, less could be just right, more could be just right, and more could also be too many. Less is only more if your more is too many. Do YOU get it now?
R
RAMI
Guest
Use zero mics, that's so much LESS that it's too much!!!!
But less is more so no mics is too many!
R
RAMI
Guest
Isn't that what I just said?
Steenamaroo
...
Greg, if you can't contribute sensibly........
I did. I had to correct an asinine misinformative post.
JimmyS1969
MOODerator
lol!
Steenamaroo
...
Rep that man!
R
RAMI
Guest
You should have corrected an asinine misinformative post instead.
Bobbsy
Boring Old Git
I'm just off to see my doctor for a 1:30 appointment. I thought it wise to contact a medical practitioner because I find myself in agreement with Greg_L so something clearly isn't right.
Seriously, "less is more" is just a cliche and means nothing with regard to this discussion.
If that phrase is meant to mean "don't add unnecessary microphones unless you want them to do something specific" then I bet we all agree. But it doesn't follow that taking away mics improves things even more.
Some styles of music--I saw classical mentioned earlier--do lend themselves to very simple mic techniques. I've often just used a coincident pair on choirs and orchestras. However, the same does not apply to the sort of sound most people want from a standard drum kit. You can vary the number and placement of mics depending on the sound you're after but simply using less doesn't guarantee a better sound.
I'll let you know what Dr. Simpson says about me agreeing with Greg. Hopefully he can prescribe something fun.
Seriously, "less is more" is just a cliche and means nothing with regard to this discussion.
If that phrase is meant to mean "don't add unnecessary microphones unless you want them to do something specific" then I bet we all agree. But it doesn't follow that taking away mics improves things even more.
Some styles of music--I saw classical mentioned earlier--do lend themselves to very simple mic techniques. I've often just used a coincident pair on choirs and orchestras. However, the same does not apply to the sort of sound most people want from a standard drum kit. You can vary the number and placement of mics depending on the sound you're after but simply using less doesn't guarantee a better sound.
I'll let you know what Dr. Simpson says about me agreeing with Greg. Hopefully he can prescribe something fun.
Hey I'm not thrilled about it either, but sometimes crazy things just happen. Embrace the fact that you're finally right about something.
MrWrenchey
New member
I'll start with the TL;DR:
I've spot mic'd hi hat and china (china I've only done for metal/hardcore kids); You don't have to use extra mics in the mix even if you record with them; solo OH tracks and pan spot mics accordingly.
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To throw this topic back on track, the only time I've ever used more than the overheads to mic cymbals is for high hat (commonly mic it, almost never need to use it), and a couple times I've mic'd a china when it's metal drums.
Most of the metal/hardcore kids I get in love the china to sound trashy, so I'll close mic that, filter it, then put a tidbit of distortion on it, and they all seem to love it... Who knows.
Like other people said, you can put more mics up, but you don't HAVE to use them if you don't think it adds more. If you are going to do that though, during mixdown, I suggest listening to the overhead tracks and placing the cymbal spot mic in the same space you're hearing it in the OH tracks to prevent smearing of your stereo signal.
This may sound silly to the people that are more of veterans here, but I know a lot of people that habitually pan things like toms the exact same distance every time they record, when the place they're at in the OH mics changes based on how the drums are set up, and what mic technique you used. Had a buddy in Nashville send me some drum tracks recently... One pair of OH tracks were XY and one was a Decca tree configuration. The XY had the toms at 10% left at 40% right, and the Decca tree almost sounded mono! I'm used to spaced pair/ORTF which usually puts the toms wider, so just make sure to check that kind of stuff when panning spot mics.
I've spot mic'd hi hat and china (china I've only done for metal/hardcore kids); You don't have to use extra mics in the mix even if you record with them; solo OH tracks and pan spot mics accordingly.
-----------------------
To throw this topic back on track, the only time I've ever used more than the overheads to mic cymbals is for high hat (commonly mic it, almost never need to use it), and a couple times I've mic'd a china when it's metal drums.
Most of the metal/hardcore kids I get in love the china to sound trashy, so I'll close mic that, filter it, then put a tidbit of distortion on it, and they all seem to love it... Who knows.
Like other people said, you can put more mics up, but you don't HAVE to use them if you don't think it adds more. If you are going to do that though, during mixdown, I suggest listening to the overhead tracks and placing the cymbal spot mic in the same space you're hearing it in the OH tracks to prevent smearing of your stereo signal.
This may sound silly to the people that are more of veterans here, but I know a lot of people that habitually pan things like toms the exact same distance every time they record, when the place they're at in the OH mics changes based on how the drums are set up, and what mic technique you used. Had a buddy in Nashville send me some drum tracks recently... One pair of OH tracks were XY and one was a Decca tree configuration. The XY had the toms at 10% left at 40% right, and the Decca tree almost sounded mono! I'm used to spaced pair/ORTF which usually puts the toms wider, so just make sure to check that kind of stuff when panning spot mics.