using drum samples

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ollie99

ollie99

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hi.
I've recently recorded drums for a song, and in the room and equipment I have, they aren't the best BUT the kick drum sounds particularly the worst. So what I've done is replaced each hit of the kick drum with a sample kick drum, it sounds better now already and will only get better when I mix it, so I was wondering if other people do this at all? I may do the same with the snare but I'm not sure yet. In terms of the other parts I'm relatively happy.
 
I have heard of a suprising amount of people trying this these days. I personally haven't ever tried it simply because it's time consuming but the results I have heard from people does make it seem worth it. Although most of the people using it are mixing masters and could probably make a fart sound like a good kick drum
 
Drum replacement is done quite a lot, especially in the commercial arena...and most often it's done to the Kick and Snare.
There are apps that will do it in a flash....just pick the samples and the target track, adjust the "trigger"...doand let it rip.

I've added samples a couple of times to existing recorded drums...again, mostly Kick or Snare...but I've not used any drum replacement software, though I may give something a try now that I have a pretty decent library with Toontracker EZD and SD packs.
Some of the replacement apps are things like Drumagog, which is a standalone app, or Beat Detective in Pro Tools....and Toontrack has Drumtracker.
 
ooo wow I didn't realise that. For now I think I will stick to doing it by hand, although I am doing a metal song there aren't too many hits so it shouldn't take too long, but thanks, I might try one out in the future.
 
Wait! You replaced every kick drum hit by hand?

...yeaaaaah.
It isn't taking that long, and there were some hits that were a bit off because I've only self taught myself the drums so the playing quality isn't the best
 
Dude, Drumagog will do that same thing, as well as use multi-samples (different sample hits...this adds to the realism since you never hit the drum exactly the same way every time). WELL worth the money. 99% or better accurate based against the transient it is applied to. WAY faster!
 
Dude, Drumagog will do that same thing, as well as use multi-samples (different sample hits...this adds to the realism since you never hit the drum exactly the same way every time). WELL worth the money. 99% or better accurate based against the transient it is applied to. WAY faster!

holy crap dude it's £250! At my age money like that does not come around quickly, and I am quite happy to do it manually and am very happy with the results so far
 
Hey man, I cringe at hearing your doing it by hand. If you have the kick track and the samples I'll do it up for you real quick. Slate trigger can do that in less than 2 mins. PM me if your interested.

But anyway more on topic of fixing the issue:

Why did your kick not turn out well? I'm getting ready to do some metal stuff myself and plan to replace the kick with a sample of the kick (so the dynamics of the hits are more uniform, there is no other reason). How did you record the kick drum?

Also, if your looking for something a bit easier on the wallet, check out apptrigga 2. Considerably more affordable than drumagog or trigger.
 
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Hey man, I cringe at hearing your doing it by hand. If you have the kick track and the samples I'll do it up for you real quick. Slate trigger can do that in less than 2 mins. PM me if your interested.

But anyway more on topic of fixing the issue:

Why did your kick not turn out well? I'm getting ready to do some metal stuff myself and plan to replace the kick with a sample of the kick (so the dynamics of the hits are more uniform, there is no other reason). How did you record the kick drum?

Also, if your looking for something a bit easier on the wallet, check out apptrigga 2. Considerably more affordable than drumagog or trigger.

haha, as I said before as well, I'm not a drummer, I've only self-taught myself, so a few of the hits were just a fraction off time so I can change them to in time manually. I don't know how good these programmes are with letting you do it manually as well. I guess it would be okay.

As for why I didn't like the sound of them, they had a lot of bass collection in them because I recorded in an untreated room (used a CAD D12 or something kick mic placed about 2cm away from the skin). I cut the lower frequencies in it but it hardly has any umph in it so when I do that you can hardly hear it and when I start to increase the volume or do any volume changing thing to it then it starts to distort.
 
Ok, there is a great, FREE way to do this with KTDrumTrigger and your favorite drum sampler.

Download KTDrumTrigger here and install it to your VSTPlugins folder.

There are a few steps to get this to work right, but generally it takes me a few minutes because I have presets saved.

1. Duplicate the relevant drum track; kick, for instance.
2. If there are any edits, select all the events on the track and press "v". This will bounce it to one consolidated event.
3. Right click the new event, and select Advanced -> Detect Silence
4. Use the Detect Silence menu to strip all of the silence between each hit while leaving each transient of the kick drum. This will help KTDrumTrigger track each hit more accurately and negate the need for any filtering. Make sure there aren't any other drums that have leaked through.
5. Insert KTDrumTrigger onto the track you just stipped silence from.

NOW.

KTDrumTrigger has MANY parameters that will help you fine tune the detector. There are actually three triggers but I only usually use the first one. These are the parameters I usually set:

1. Filter type: High Pass
2. Filter Cutoff: 50Hz (for kick. For snare, I'll set it higher, to like 100Hz)
3. Follower attack: Fastest
4. Drum MIDI Note Number: Whatever note triggers the kick in your sampler. Snare is usually 38 so kick will be 36, which is the default.
5. Drum 1 midi channel: 1
6. Drum 1 Use MIDI Velocity: Yes
7. Audio Output Mode: Mute

I usually make presets for each drum (kick, snare, etc,) which helps to speed things up next time. The first time you use the plugin, it'll take a bit longer. Next, play the track with KTDrumTrigger inserted and lower the threshold until you see little circles appear on each hit (there is a graphical display of the waveform that scrolls left to right)

OK, now, create either a midi track or an instrument track and link it to your favorite drum sampler. I use Steven Slate drums or Steinberg's Groove Agent 3. If you've made your own samples, load them into a sampler. For the MIDI input, select KTDrumTrigger (it will also tell you which track it's from and appear in the input patch pulldown selection menu).

Now, record enable the MIDI track and record the entire length of the song. Usually there is some sort of latency so if you don't hear them sync at first, don't worry, we're going to fix that shortly. Alternatively, you could set a negative track delay on the KTDrumTrigger track until you hear them sync, which would negate the next step we're going to perform. On my system it's usually a latency of around 22ms (which means you'll set the track delay to -22.00). The name of the game here is matching the triggered sound as close to sample per sample as accurately as you can.

However, if you choose NOT to do that, do this:

Once the track has recorded each hit to MIDI, go to he arrange (project) page, and put the cursor at the beginning of the FIRST kick drum transient. This will usually be a trough, so don't set it at the beginning of the peak. You'll see it once you zoom in. DON'T move it. Now, open the recorded MIDI event and select ALL hits (ctrl-A). Press CTRL-X to cut all of them out and then press CTRL-V to past them where the cursor lies. They SHOULD all properly align now.

There is an art to this, obviously, and it's not as easy as inserting drumagog, but it's free and once you get the hang of it, it WAY more accurate and powerful, IMO. I will never use any other method.

Cheers :)
 
Going back a bit... This does happen a lot in commercial mixes, as previously mentioned.
Our professor at our college was able to grab the original tracks for Switchfoot's song "Meant to Live"... The Snare, Lo Tom, AND Hi Tom were replaced, only thing left alone was kick and overheads. It seems to me like it does happen a lot (you can hear it on a lot of songs by band's like this when they do 16th note drum hits, they all sound a little too uniform).
 
Going back a bit... This does happen a lot in commercial mixes, as previously mentioned.
Our professor at our college was able to grab the original tracks for Switchfoot's song "Meant to Live"... The Snare, Lo Tom, AND Hi Tom were replaced, only thing left alone was kick and overheads. It seems to me like it does happen a lot (you can hear it on a lot of songs by band's like this when they do 16th note drum hits, they all sound a little too uniform).

Which is why using multi samples, and tracking dynamics fully are really important! :)
 
Ok, there is a great, FREE way to do this with KTDrumTrigger and your favorite drum sampler.

Download KTDrumTrigger here and install it to your VSTPlugins folder.

There are a few steps to get this to work right, but generally it takes me a few minutes because I have presets saved.

1. Duplicate the relevant drum track; kick, for instance.
2. If there are any edits, select all the events on the track and press "v". This will bounce it to one consolidated event.
3. Right click the new event, and select Advanced -> Detect Silence
4. Use the Detect Silence menu to strip all of the silence between each hit while leaving each transient of the kick drum. This will help KTDrumTrigger track each hit more accurately and negate the need for any filtering. Make sure there aren't any other drums that have leaked through.
5. Insert KTDrumTrigger onto the track you just stipped silence from.

NOW.

KTDrumTrigger has MANY parameters that will help you fine tune the detector. There are actually three triggers but I only usually use the first one. These are the parameters I usually set:

1. Filter type: High Pass
2. Filter Cutoff: 50Hz (for kick. For snare, I'll set it higher, to like 100Hz)
3. Follower attack: Fastest
4. Drum MIDI Note Number: Whatever note triggers the kick in your sampler. Snare is usually 38 so kick will be 36, which is the default.
5. Drum 1 midi channel: 1
6. Drum 1 Use MIDI Velocity: Yes
7. Audio Output Mode: Mute

I usually make presets for each drum (kick, snare, etc,) which helps to speed things up next time. The first time you use the plugin, it'll take a bit longer. Next, play the track with KTDrumTrigger inserted and lower the threshold until you see little circles appear on each hit (there is a graphical display of the waveform that scrolls left to right)

OK, now, create either a midi track or an instrument track and link it to your favorite drum sampler. I use Steven Slate drums or Steinberg's Groove Agent 3. If you've made your own samples, load them into a sampler. For the MIDI input, select KTDrumTrigger (it will also tell you which track it's from and appear in the input patch pulldown selection menu).

Now, record enable the MIDI track and record the entire length of the song. Usually there is some sort of latency so if you don't hear them sync at first, don't worry, we're going to fix that shortly. Alternatively, you could set a negative track delay on the KTDrumTrigger track until you hear them sync, which would negate the next step we're going to perform. On my system it's usually a latency of around 22ms (which means you'll set the track delay to -22.00). The name of the game here is matching the triggered sound as close to sample per sample as accurately as you can.

However, if you choose NOT to do that, do this:

Once the track has recorded each hit to MIDI, go to he arrange (project) page, and put the cursor at the beginning of the FIRST kick drum transient. This will usually be a trough, so don't set it at the beginning of the peak. You'll see it once you zoom in. DON'T move it. Now, open the recorded MIDI event and select ALL hits (ctrl-A). Press CTRL-X to cut all of them out and then press CTRL-V to past them where the cursor lies. They SHOULD all properly align now.

There is an art to this, obviously, and it's not as easy as inserting drumagog, but it's free and once you get the hang of it, it WAY more accurate and powerful, IMO. I will never use any other method.

Cheers :)

downloaded it, duplicated the track, don't see the detect silence option anywhere? I'm using reaper btw
 
Stopped working altogether? Or as in "not working for me"?

Cheers :)
 
downloaded it, duplicated the track, don't see the detect silence option anywhere? I'm using reaper btw

Oh, well, maybe a Reaper expert can chime in. It must have that function somewhere. Look in the documentation? Also, it could be named something else, like "strip silence".

Cheers :)
 
^ I've had good luck with slate triggers.
When I record at my house, I use a full electronic kit (set up by a drummer who knows what he is doing), Sometimes I'll put the tracks down, sometimes I have a drummer come over. I usually just record the midi hits, then apply whatever drum samples I need for each track kick-kick snare=snare. The only thing I don't like about it is trying to get an OH sound. I've figured out how to do that though.
 
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