using compression

  • Thread starter Thread starter DeadUnion
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DeadUnion

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When recording drums and vocals, is it better to get a decent sound and then add compression as an insert effect at the mixing stage, or record with mics running through the compressors using the xlr inputs and outputs to my recorder during tracking. I have some songs I am going to be recording and mixing this week and any advice would be awsome.

I am just wondering because I am using a 16 track stand alone and would rather go straight into the recorder instead of the mixing board because I do everything in one room so I have to do everything when recording drums by trial and error as in set everything, record a sample, listen to it, adjust mics etc. record, listen adjust, etc. I find this easier going right into the recorder cause then I still have control throughout the whole process of the levels, pan etc of all five mics. Where if I go through the mixer, I could use the insert inputs while recording but everything has to be perfect to go on to the recorder as a stereo signal and it's just so much a pain in the ass doing it that way.

I am using a 1608 which has no channel insert inputs, so I am assuming I would have to insert the effect through the channel inputs during mixing process. Which would be a more preferred way to go, or being fairly new at this am I way out to leftfield here on what I should be doing. Thanks in advance for any help. Maybe pain in the ass is the way to go, I just want the best results, either way.
 
Record with 24 bit and leave enough room to the magical 0dB digital. Then it should be no problem compressing in the mixing stage. Just remember: not too hot - any clip will spoil your take...

aXel
 
DeadUnion, is the 16 track in question analog or digital?

Does it even have 24 bit capacity?

The way you're planning to record now --- straight into the deck with no board in between --- seems quite foolish to me.

When you go to mix the resulting tracks there will probably be at least several if not many unpleasant surprises waiting for you...

And to answer the basic question, I always track with some compression to ensure good levels for mixdown. I don't squeeze the life out of anything, but I want to be sure I don't exceed that 'magic zero' referred to above.
 
thanks for the advice, yeah it is digital. Thanks for the help, I'll get going trying some different things out.
 
ssscientist said:
The way you're planning to record now --- straight into the deck with no board in between --- seems quite foolish to me.

When you go to mix the resulting tracks there will probably be at least several if not many unpleasant surprises waiting for you...
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Why is he foolish for going straight into his deck? Do you know what kind of pre's it has? If he can get a decent level going straight in, what "surprises" can be awaiting him? I record some of my instruments straight in and so far, nothing has exploded.

I always track with some compression to ensure good levels for mixdown
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If that works for you, that's great. But just in case a newbie is reading this, you don't HAVE to ALWAYS compress on the way in. You can if you choose to but it's not a rule. Especially with 24bit digital. You shouldn't be going as close to zero db as possible because you don't have to worry about signal to noise ratio. You can leave headroom, which means that you might not HAVE to compress on the way in.
 
Like RAMI said... there is no reason to think you MUST run everything through a compressor... especially when going to 24 bit digital... especially if you have questionable compressors [which I don't know if you do or not because you didn't say... but I'm guessing that if you're asking the question you asked your compression is probably not in the serious "professional" level of the tool set... I apologize in advance if this is an erroneous assumption].

Compression is used for two reasons... the first would be "level/dynamics" control [louder is gooder!! school of engineering]... the other first would be "envelop modification".

By "envelop modification" I mean pulling up the sound as it's trying to fade out [long release]... or knocking down a front end spike [fast attack]... or enhancing a front end spike [slow attack]... or cutting the sound short [fast release] or any combination or extreme of the fore mentioned envelop scenarios.
 
I would personally try and track as cleanly as possible....the less you do during tracking, the better. It will give you the most vesatility later. If it's an effecet, or process you can easily do later, leave it till later. it might save you from having to re-track.
 
Depending on your direction, effecting things alot may or may not be a good ground zero.

What I've favored lately is starting with some good tones and letting that dictate the rest of my overdubs. Compression or lack there of usually has nothing to do with my approval of the outcome. I think it is important to have a vision of the finished product and work towards that.
 
RAMI said:
Do you know what kind of pre's it has?
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Oh, please! If he posts here, do you think he has a Neve 8028? How do you know he's even got 'pre's'? And pre-what's? Pre-war? Pre-history? Pre-ventative medicine? Pre-tend experts in what he should or shouldn't do over this coming weekend?

what "surprises" can be awaiting him?
Click to expand...

Little bunnies. Big bunnies. Big scary distortion. Clowns. Birthday presents. Stuff from Santa's sack.

But just in case a newbie is reading this...Especially with 24bit digital
Click to expand...

Would you trust a newbie with YOUR 24bit system? If yes, signify by dropping down to the Newbies forum and picking a good one from the many available.





.
 
The risk with using compression while tracking, especially drums, is chopping off the transients with a too fast attack. You're better off leaving yourself headroom and recording in the raw. Then experiment with compression later to your heart's content
 
Bulls Hit said:
The risk with using compression while tracking, especially drums, is chopping off the transients with a too fast attack. You're better off leaving yourself headroom and recording in the raw. Then experiment with compression later to your heart's content
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Agreed! Also, I would leave the serious comp. duties to a mastering guy.
 
Thanks to Fletcher I have bypassed my mixer for tracking altogether. My pre's go straight to patch, to either a Mackie SDR or a Tascam 38 and our tracks are the better for it.

It's also far far less confusing. AND, i pulled probably 1/2 mile of cables out of my signal chains. as long as he has some way to preamplify his mic's, why not go direct to the recorder?

The only thing i would put in our signal chain is a noise gate. And close it all the way down so none of our garbage actually gets to the recorder. That way, at least it won't sound bad ;)
 
ssscientist said:
Oh, please! If he posts here, do you think he has a Neve 8028? How do you know he's even got 'pre's'? And pre-what's? Pre-war? Pre-history? Pre-ventative medicine? Pre-tend experts in what he should or shouldn't do over this coming weekend?



Little bunnies. Big bunnies. Big scary distortion. Clowns. Birthday presents. Stuff from Santa's sack.



Would you trust a newbie with YOUR 24bit system? If yes, signify by dropping down to the Newbies forum and picking a good one from the many available.





.
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Your lame attempt at humor is rather embarrasing "pre-war, pre-bla bla..." You must be a big hit with the 8-10 year old audience....pathetic.

You're a hundred per cent wrong about him being foolish to plug straight into his board, as has been proven by other's posts from people who's opinions are based on experience, not a lack of it. That was one of the most rediculous things I've ever heard.

So, you're assuming that since he's a newbie, he doesn't have a 24 bit digital machine. My, that's pretty presumptous. And kind of stupid, too.

There's nothing worse than idiots presenting OPINIONS as FACT.

The fact is, you don't HAVE to compress on the way in and there's nothing wrong with going straight into your board if it works for you.
Newbies, beware of wannabe's telling you what you HAVE to do just because THEY never learned another way.

I'll leave this thread to wannabe experts and hope that someone with a brain can actually NOT mislead newbies when I'm gone.

Have a nice day. :)
 
Keep the signal path as short as possible. Lengthen it only when necessary.

Mic --> Preamp --> Recorder. It's done all the time. Limit or compress on tracking only if the source is so wildly dynamic to call for just a little taming before sticking to disc. Run through a board only if there is positive purpose to it (e.g. "that Neve sound", or needing to insert a signal chain or get back a wet aux mix, needing to ride faders instead of limiting or compressing, not having enough stand-alone preamps or channel strips to go around, etc.) Otherwise, if you don't need the board, bypass it and keep it short.

If you are so sure of the results you're going to get from a particular recording setup with compression because you have already recorded that artist or have done some recording trick a hundred times before, you can save yourself some time in post by nailing the compression effect in tracking. But that should be considerd the exception reserved for those with the experinece to bend the norms.

G.
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
Keep the signal path as short as possible. Lengthen it only when necessary.

Mic --> Preamp --> Recorder. It's done all the time. Limit or compress on tracking only if the source is so wildly dynamic to call for just a little taming before sticking to disc. Run through a board only if there is positive purpose to it (e.g. "that Neve sound", or needing to insert a signal chain or get back a wet aux mix, needing to ride faders instead of limiting or compressing, not having enough stand-alone preamps or channel strips to go around, etc.) Otherwise, if you don't need the board, bypass it and keep it short.

If you are so sure of the results you're going to get from a particular recording setup with compression because you have already recorded that artist or have done some recording trick a hundred times before, you can save yourself some time in post by nailing the compression effect in tracking. But that should be considerd the exception reserved for those with the experinece to bend the norms.

G.
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I only came back because I saw that S.S. Glen posted, I knew it wouldn't be a dumb post...

Nice to see that someone ThAT KNOWS WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT agrees with me.

Nothing worse than presenting a narrow-minded opinion as "FACT".

Ok, next!
 
RAMI said:
Your lame attempt at humor is rather embarrasing "pre-war, pre-bla bla..." You must be a big hit with the 8-10 year old audience....pathetic.
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You must be one prince of a guy with little better to do than spit tacks, both at posts and (mostly) personally at the authors that dare to cross the omnipotent RAMI and take a different look at the problem as I did.

Open your mind just a little.

Relax just a little.

Try not to get so angry.

It's a big, beautiful world out here with room for every opinion and for most methods of working.

And there's no reason to call me lame, pathetic, a wannabe, stupid and an idiot just because I don't see things your way.




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thanks for all the advice guys, we are spending the day today dedicated to getting good drum sound. I had recorded drums but we were really unhappy with the sound. I don't have the best mics or gear but I am trying to do the best I can. i was listening to the drums last night again and I also think the cymbals sound really airy-tinny. I think I have a decent sound going on with the snare, it has the sound we like for our songs(=funk/punk/ska). I'll maybe post some clips later if any of you would wanna a listen.
 
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