Use automation in Pro Audio

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maddrummer

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I record through a Delta 1010 into Pro Audio 9.03. When i mix down should I repatch everything back into my Mackie and mix that way, or should I use the Automation in Cakewalk. I am assumming that repatching and rerecording it would add noise to the tracks, but the automation in Cakewalk can be kind of tedious. So any suggestions would be cool. thanks........Josh
 
i think automation is one of the things that got me the most excited about computer recording. imagine how much more tedious it would be if you had to ride the controls of 24 tracks at the same time when you have only two hands. 4 or 6 hands mixdown sessions were something common in the old days of yore when automation was but a dream. but if the tracks you're working on are simple enough that you can mix them all by yourself on a mackie, mixing them in cakewalk can be even simpler. you can use regular automation, you can use snapshots, and you can use volume/pan envelopes. and the best thing is they're easy to use, but you've gotta get in on the action.
i think that's worth it to avoid another d/a conversion, and you'd still have to live with the added noise.

cheers,
adriano
 
Maddrummer -

To go back out to your Mackie would require a D/A conversion, and then another A/D coversion to bring it back into the computer. I certainly wouldn't recommend it.

Automation in Cakewalk is not at all tedious if you use the Envelopes. Anyone who is not using the vector based automation (envelopes) on a DAW is really missing the boat IMHO.
 
I haveta agree

Automation is a great feature, but I gotta say, until Sonar, it was not all that intuitive. I'm not saying that that's reason enough to upgrade as you may blow other parts of your config. but the automation in Sonar is easy to use and very easy to modify as it's graphic. If you can learn it in PA9 it may be worth your while though, I never could.
 
envelope automation is not that hard in cw 9, but i wish it was as intuitive as in protools, as a few other s/w are.
the worst thing is having to start all over again whenever there's a gap (silence) in a track.
it also sucks that you can't copy envelope data, both volume and pan, and add it to other parts of the track. it would make it a lot easier to ride volumes in vocal and drum tracks.
i'm considering upgrading to sonar because of that, and also because of directx automation.

adriano
 
hey guys...

i did a search for automation, this is the first thread i liked so i may answer my own question as i read more threads, but i used automation all the time on DP3 when i was using a mac, and i can't seem to work it on Sonar, i read the help file about 100x.... i just think i'm missing something. so if someone could point out a link where it's explained i'd really appreciate it. i figure it's only a matter of arming it, hitting record, and actually making the moves on the fader/mutes/effects/etc, but for some reason i can't seem do get it right.

thanks a lot in advance.
 
superman - I assume it is volume levels that you want to automate? To start with, automation in Sonar is done after you have recorded your material.

The simplest way (for me at least) is to record your track first. Once the track is recorded, play it back and adjust the general volume level of the track to roughly where you want it to be using the "vol" box from the left frame of Track View.

After you have the "general" volume to your liking, right click on the recorded waveform and select "envelopes" from the popup menu, and the "create" and "volume" from the submenus.

Once you do this you will get a straight horizontal line drawn through your wave (the volume "envelope"). This line represents the "default" volume setting for the track. (If you hold your mouse over the line, a popup window will tell you what it is set at.)

Now start your playback. When you reach a point where you want to implement a volume change, stop the playback. Put your mouse pointer on the volume envelope line exactly where you want the volume chanqe to start. Right click the mouse and choose "add node" from the popup menu. It will place a square box on the volume envelope. Now move slightly to the left and add another node.

Begin you playback again and stop it at the point where you want the volume to change again (or return back to the original setting). Place a node at this point, and one just slightly to the right.

You should now have 4 nodes on the volume envelope line. Put your mouse on the volume envelope inbetween the two middle nodes. Left click and drag the line upwards (to increase volume) or downwards (to decrease volume). As you do this, a window will tell you the db setting of the change.

Start your playback again from before the first node and listen to the change. Adjust it again according to your taste.

While this might sound complicated, it is actually quite easy. It took me longer to explain it then it would to actually do it.

The beauty of this is:
1. It is all non-destructive. You can make all the adjustments you want without effecting the orginal volume of the wave.
2. You can visually see where all the changes are taking place.
3. You can go back an readjust any change (or delete it entirely)
4. You can make very rapid changes (e.g., increase/decrease the volume of a single word in a vocal).
5. Your timing can be impeccible, since you are visually placing the node, rather than trying to move a fader at exactly the right time.

Good luck, and check back if you have any problems.
 
wow, thanks a lot for that explanation. i understand what you're saying completely - i'm gonna try it in a few minutes. for now, two quick questions remain...

can nodes be added for effects, etc? (i don't have sonar on this computer otherwise i'd check the submenu myself)... if not, how do effects get automated. what about mutes/solos?

why do you put two additional nodes to the left and right of the beginning and end of the envelope, respectively...

thanks a lot. you've been a big help... i didn't even know envelopes existed - it's nothing like the automation in dp3 i guess...
 
Yes, you can create effects envelopes in Sonar - but ONLY for certain DX8 automatable effects (the ones that are preceded with an Fx in the Sonar menu - e.g, FxReverb). Creating and using the envelope(s) is the same as I described for Volume - except, of course, you select the effect when creating the envelope. Automatable effects are new with Sonar, and one of the nicer features they added since PA9.

There is also an automated mute envelope (although I haven't used that one myself).

As for the extra nodes, it's a little difficult to explain. You will see it immediately once you start to work with them. Essentially the first node of each pair anchors the envelope at the original setting, and the second node brings it to the new setting.
 
oh i see - could be used for a gradual increase in volume or something to that effect. thanks a lot for your explanations, i'm good to go =)
 
Not just a gratuitous post for "Senior Member" status...

Another thing you can do (both in PA9 and Sonar):

Even if the effect is not automatable, you can put it on an aux buss and automate the aux send level on a particular track.
If you have a delay for example that you want to use in a particular part of the song, keep the aux send level down until you need it then boost the level where and when you want it. Envelopes are nice for this.:)
 
can you automate the aux send level in pa9?
what i usually do for effects automation in pa9 is setting up an effect on a the track i want, and then printing the effected result to an open track. then i automate that tracks volume.

adriano
 
I don't remember how, but

I had a song that needed a slap delay on the beat in one or two spots and I was able to open up the send and then close it. I don't remember if I moved the slider or if I just turned the green button on and off. I remember tweaking it in the event list though as it shows up as midi controller info in PA9.
Hope this helps because I'm not reinstalling PA9. ;)
 
Dachay, I don't know what you do for a job, but you ought to get Mr 12 tones to give you a job writing manuals! Tried the envelope creation steps as you described and couldn't believe it. Amazing!! Tried to understand Envelopes from the "Help" some time ago and couldn't understand what it was talking about.

Thanks a lot...again:D
 
chucku,

i really can't figure out how you did that. did you move the slider or bottom and then take a snapshot?

adriano
 
Adriano,
I apologize that I haven't been able to take you all the way through this. :o Maybe someone else can. I still have the manual (and a .bun of the file I used this on, I believe) and will investigate. I could never get used to mixer automation in PA9, but I live by it in Sonar. I can tell you that it wasn't snapshot automation because I never figured that out.
Obviously, there's nothing wrong with the way you did it.
If nobody responds in the next few days and I come up with the answer, I'll post it here or email your website.
 
chucku,

don't worry about it.
i'll try a few things to see what works. i'll post my discoveries here, someone might have a use for them.:)

adriano
 
I took the PA9 manual to work...

Apparently, aux sends are automatable in the same way as other controls: This is found on page 9-28.

Enable automation recording in console view and make your changes in real time.

On page 9-27...

"Automation data for an individual track is saved as a series of controller events on the corresponding track."

"Automation data for an aux bus or main is saved as a series of controller events on a special track with a track name of 'Console Automation Data.'"

As I said before, this is SO much easier in Sonar.
 
oh, now i understand. but in sonar you can automate an effect without having to use the aux buss, can't you? so much easier indeed.

thanks a lot for taking the time to do the search, chuck. i couldn't do it, since i don't have the manual. my cwpa came with my direct pro, so no manual, just tutorials and help files (and scott garrigus' 'cakewalk power').

adriano
 
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