Urgent, I need help with mics on drums!

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carlosguardia

carlosguardia

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Ok, I've been a musician for a very long time and have recorded in a number of ocasions in different studios, from small home studios, cassette four-tracks, and very large important studios and for a while I've been working on setting up my own little home recording facility. I've had very good results with all my midi (which is quite easy to make it sound good) and have had pretty outstanding results recording guitars, basses, and vocals. Now, I'm working on recording drums, I bought a pair of ECM 8000's, and a Shure PG 52 and in my studio (which is a rectangular room that measures roughly 2.5 mts by 3.5 mts with gypsum walls and the ceiling is about 3 mts high) I set up a friend's drum set. The set is a very nice sounding Pearl Export series with nice cymbals and it was tuned by a pro less than a week ago. I covered the walls and corners with blankets that I nailed to them, and put a twin sized mattress on the wall that's kind of in front of the set (the set was placed kind of on an angle, not straight in front of one of the walls). Finally I moved on to placing the mics.

First step I did was to place the ECM 8000's with the capsuled almost touching each other, head high on a 100 degree angle (give or take a few degrees) and checked to see how that sounded, I wasn't pleased so I went ahead and tried placing each one, just a little lower and on the sides of the drums, one on top of the Hats and the other on top of the floor toms, I made sure that they were at the same height and distance from the snare. This sounded quite better to me. Then I placed an SM 57 on the snare (a tight 13" piccolo) that was no brain surgery, I placed it about 5 cm from the side, pointing towards the middle of the snare and with it's back towards the Hats. Finally, I placed the PG 52 inside the kick drum (we removed the front skin of it) and I put it half-way in, pointing towards the spot where the beater hits the rear skin but in an "down and right" angle so that if I was to draw a straight line from the mic, it would end up touching the floor on the side of the floor tom (did this for two reasons, one, to avoid bleeding from the hats and snare, two, to avoid the boominess having it right in front of the beater).

Now, to why I need help:
I just don't seem to find this set up to sound the way I thought it would. Maybe that's vague or very novice-like. Let me explain, first of all, it sounds quite dirty, not as "pure" as I expected it would. It just plainly sounds dull to me. I haven't played with any EQing or effects yet, I intend to gate the Kick and Snare mics and maybe EQ a little plus add just a tad of a large-sounding reverb, but I don't know where to start to fix this so that what I want can be acheived. I want the bass drum to sound "heavier", and the OH's to sound a little more dry. Here's an example of how it's sounding to me... maybe some of you can give me pointers on how to improve this. The fact that the mp3 has to be really compressed in order for me to attach it to the post compromises the quality of the recording but if any of you want, I can email you a better, longer file. I appreciate all your help in advance.

Carlos
 

Attachments

One more quick question:

I could set the drums right outside the studio, in an "three wall open space" that is about 5x5 mts and has a higher roof, with the advantage that it only has three walls and the set could be placed facing a yard... would this be a good idea?!

Thanx

Carlos
 
couple of quick ideas:

1) place the SM57 more upright. Aim it
an inch or so in from the rim, and have it
nearly vertical, an inch or so up from the head.

2) tell the drummer to hit the snare HARD.

3) tune the drum heads.

4) move the kick drum mic arround. Ignore bleed from the
snares, get the sound right first.
 
My Opinion

carlosguardia,
What I seem to be hearing is a lot of room sound.

The Kick drum suffers without the resonant skin. If the drummer does not want to cut a hole in the resonant head, first (without the res head) try muffling the kick head to be basically a dull hit (right now it sounds kinda papery) if that does not work for you put the res head back on and mic it from out side,at least you will have some tone.
The acoustics of the room seem to be over prevalent. Since you have the ability to record in that three sided room that may provide the drier sound you are looking for. Other than that your mission (should you decide to accept it ) is to dry up the reverb in your existing room. It might be as simple as hanging some heavy packing blankets out in the room from the ceiling or making some stand up sound panels you can move around the room.
I use this method myself. They are nice to use as room dividers when I am tracking vocals or acoustic instruments in the large room and want to cut the sound size of the room down.
 
Tmix mentioned too much room. Blankets absorb highs but not mids and lows. My solution in a similar room is several fiber glass on ply wood baffles. 3 and 4 inches deep, 4' x 6', a pair on each side of the kit, a few others lean upright on the walls. The kit ones help with isolation and they all help tighten everything up.
My mic set up is similar (QTC-1's are the main sound, no tom mics) but I tend to put them lower -down around sholder height and back a bit, but that stems from wanting more isolation and, more kit, less cymbals. (The down side is the hat is a bit more left than I'd prefer.) I sometimes do a bit of high shelf or mid cut eq, but the point is, that it's a fairly balanced tone, and the kit is reasonably tight. (Not 70's 80's tight, but you get the idea.:D
...Are the ECM 8000's omni also?
Wayne
 
* Treat your room better; more blankets, foam, etc. Purchase or make bass traps (do a search for diy bass traps, tube traps, etc.).

* Use overheads with a tighter pickup pattern. Stay away from the Omnis for now (Store them away untill you get your accoustic situation all straightened out). Octava mc012 / Marshall mxl603 are good choices.
 
detuned6 said:
the ecm's are omni.
What are you using for preamps?
Click to expand...
Who, me?:)
None. QTC to an AT remote phantom, to a Whirlwind IMP spliter. Trans. out goes to the mackie for monitor, direct line goes to in-line pads if needed, or direct to RME ADI-8.
On quiet songs the level can be a bit low, but through pres, on anything up to speed, even with pads on, a lot of songs I couldn't throw away enough voltage. (Sometimes they're still too hot, so the in-line pads...)
I just sprang for a pair RNPs, otherwise it's been the mackies and a Symetrix 202, so...:rolleyes:
Wayne
 
I finished a project about a month ago with an extremely picky drummer. He's the nicest, most layed-back person, and as anal about his drum sounds as you can possibly get. My 'studio' is similar to yours. A basic drywalled room. He worked forever between various pieces for his recording set + tuning and retuning and patches and baffles and blankets...crazy. In the end, this worked out great:

Octava mc012's as overheads slightly more than 2' above the set equa-distant from a center line drawn diagonally through the set. We got more sense of separation and control of the dynamics of the set this way, as opposed to the sterio xy pattern. The set itself sat close to the back wall. About 3' out without baffling on the wall. The snare had an sm57 just over the rim with almost a 45 degree angle toward the center. I just kept moving until we hit a sweet spot. We used an SP B1 under the snare which I largely discarded. There was way too much bleed to be useful. The kick was miced with an SP C3 in figure 8 pattern about 12" back in another sweet spot and a B1 off angle to the sound hole, but 6" back. We blended the kicks to give fullness to the sound when needed. We used a Blue Baby Bottle as a room mic 5' out in the middle of the room and 5' up from the floor. Instead of dampening the room, we used the reflected sound to add some texture. The kick mics were heavily blanketed in a "v" pattern from the kick to the mic stands and futon mats were close by at about 16" height off the floor. In the end product, the drums sound really good. The room is not distinguishable. The sound is crisp and not muddy. We could drive a rock song with dual lead guitars and clean up for an acoustic version of Key to the Highway.

The long and the short, I think its possible to learn to use the room. We got a lot more leverage out of drum tuning and mic placement.
 
Thanks for all the replies, I worked on re-tuning the room a little today, and with the mic placement and ended with a pretty good drums sound. I'll post some of it in the MP3 clinic later on.

Carlos
 
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