upgrading, & Want to make sure it will work?? 003 rack

[audio_leak]

hey everyone im new to the board.

i joined up because im about to upgrade my tiny home studio and id like to make sure everything im planning on getting will sync together and work without to much of a problem

i have been using a lexicon lambda as a recording interface and a studio projects c3 microphone to lay down my vocal tracks. but obviously with no vocal booth and such a small setup its impossible to get more then a demo sound, dont get me wrong the lexicon lambda is great at what it does but after 2 years of using it im ready to move up.

my situation is that i need to record vocals for hiphop tracks and also bands, sometimes needing to record stuff like death metal.

for years now ive been waiting to move on a digidesign machine and ive decided to take the plunge and buy an 003 model. so i have ordered a new computer capable of running all the equipment and im starting to get it organised.

my first question is that would it be better for me to buy a 003 rack and buy a high end mic pre with extra channels, or just to buy the 003 factory and buy a decent mic pre down the track.

i was thinking of pairing the
003 rack with a Mackie Onyx 800R 8 Channel pre amp
but is this a waste of time, when i could spend the extra money on getting the 003 factory? or will the Mackie Onyx add a better sound?
i liked the mackie because it also doubles as an instrument pre which has good reviews.

id really like to know as well if i buy the mackie and 003 rack are they going to pair up okay, or am i going to run into any problems?

also i know its off topic but if anyone on here has personally used a Rode K2 Valve Studio Microphone could you let me know how it performs was thinking of buying another mic as well.

thanks for reading, please drop me a line if you can help out.

 

[noisewreck]

but obviously with no vocal booth...

At the expence of coming across as an a$$hole, I am gonna say this.

Before shelling out all the money for upgrading your recording gear, have you put any thought into room acoustics?

While going with the 003 is definitely a good idea, especially if you want to move to ProTools, all that gear isn't magically going to make you sound "less demo", if you still record in a poor acoustic environment.

 

[audio_leak]

believe it or not, even though im still a begginer, room acoustics is a constant hassle for me and of course i want to sort it out.

after i have bought all my new equipment, im looking into buying a vocal booth or whisper room iso booth.

but its going to cost me probably $6-7k in upgrades. after that ill start working on the vocal booth and general room acoustics.

thanks for the speedy reply, but do you have any info on the equipment ive listed??

 

[flyingsoulo]

If you took the optical outputs from the Onyx 800R into the optical inputs on the 003, this should work just fine. You shouldn't have any clocking issues if you are running it this way, but if you did; you could simply set the 003 as the master and slave the Mackie to the 003. You would of course just take a BNC cable from the word clock output of the 003 and connect that to the word clock input on the Mackie.

The 003R and 003 Factory (and 003R+) have the same mic pres, so it won't sound any better if you shelled out the dough for the Factory. The only difference, as I understand it, between the 003R and the 003 Factory is that the Factory is attached to a control surface. Its a really good control surface (I wish I had one), but is it worth the extra $1000 to you?

I, personally, own a 003R+ which has 8 mic pres instead of 4 like the 003R and 003 Factory. Its priced nicely between the 003R and the 003 Factory, so that is another option.

Is there any reason why you need to be able to record 16 channels at the same time?

 

[audio_leak]

hey flying soulo thanks for the info on the 003r /onyx link up, really helpful.

i basically just wanted to be prepared for anything, i record a few different styles of music and would like to have the option of recording bands live, simultaniously. 8 is enough for me, but the 003R only has four so thats why i had the preamp idea.

i would like the 003R+ for this reason, but ive only ever seen the 003R in the music stores around here.

 

[flyingsoulo]

I understand. I couldn't find one in the stores either. I had to order mine online.

I just remembered stumbling on a video on Presonus's website that details exactly what you would be trying to do with your Mackie. Here is the page:

http://www.presonus.com/products/Detail.aspx?ProductId=48

Just click on Videos and watch the video called "Recording drums with the DigiMax D8". They are actually using a 002, but the concept is exactly the same.

 

[audio_leak]

thanks flyingS

i added it to my favourites for when i get the 003 next week. thanks alot for your help.

i managed to find a local store that had 003R+ in stock as well so its been a good day.

just another question if you feel like answering it, as an owner of the 003R+ what do you find it lacks, like is there a piece of equipment you wish you had that to improve the sound of your 003?

i have a fairly flexible budget to work with at the moment so im just trying to think ahead for the future of what else i would need to get the best sound from my 003, any suggestions are welcome.

thanks again.

 

[flyingsoulo]

There is one thing that just came to mind. You can't completely bypass the mic pres on the analog inputs of the 003 (only on channels that have an XLR input). This isn't really a big deal, but it is something that you should know (its something that Digidesign isn't all that up front about). All this really means is that each analog input (including line ins) go through the microphone preamps before the signal gets to the A/D converters.

The only thing that I've done to get a different sound out of my 003 (not necessarily "better". Just different) was I bought a cheap single channel mic pre (Presonus Tube Pre). I am running the output (XLR) to the line input on a channel on my 003 (again, this is still running through the mic pres, but I set the input to line in/DI and turn the trim all the way off to reduce this). This seems to give me a completely different sound out of my 003 and seems to work really well with some cheaper microphones.

You have already talked about picking up a 8 channel mic pre (which would run through lightpipe), but you also have SPDIF inputs which will give you 2 more channels. In the future, you might think about buying a high quality single or double channel microphone preamp (like a LA-610, Grace m101, Neve, SSL, etc.). These mic pres aren't cheap and most of them don't have digital outs so you would also need an A/D converter (Like a Apogee Rosetta or Black Lion Audio Sparrow).

I would hold off on buying too much gear immediately. You might find that you can get a great sound out of the combination of your 003 and your Mackie pres. You should probably just play around with your gear once you get it and figure out what you like. Maybe the 003 sounds better on drum microphones and the Mackies sound best on guitars and vocals. There is no sense in going out and buying gear that you might not even need.

You haven't mentioned microphones yet. Have you narrowed down a list of mics yet?

Your also going to need to setup a nice recording environment. That could mean doing acoustic treatment on the room or getting a recording booth of some kind. If you build it yourself, you can save some cash. There is a lot of information on DIY vocal booths on the web. Just do a search.

 

[audio_leak]

hey flying,

yes i was aware of that issue with the analog pre's, through reading on this forum and some others, its not really a problem for me but thanks for letting me know. Digidesign should def be more upfront about these things though when you have to spend the money you do on their equipment!

thats a good idea for the extra hi-quality 1 or 2 channel amp, i was actually looking at getting a neve preamp for something like this, as i have read that they are very good pre's. thats a another good idea for down the track at least.

yeah i think i just got a little overexcited by the thought of all the new gear and wanted to, like i said before be prepared for anything and get the most from my 003. i have a fairly decent budget at the moment and really just want to get all the ideas i can with what other equipment people have used with the 003 to good success, so if i do want to upgrade i know what to do in the future.

microphones, hmm well i currently own a studio projects C3, which i love so much and it has served me well. i planned on buying another 2 or 3 mics as well, some i was looking at...

studio projects T3, rode NT2A, rode K2

of course i have only ever used a SP or a rode mic for recording so im a little stuck with looking at those brands, any other mics within my price range (anything less then say $1500) that you can reccomend id def like to take a look.

i was looking at a vocalbooth booth the whisper rooms are a little out of my price range, but i am a fairly decent builder and have seen some some satisfying, DIY booths and treated room designs. just not sure if im ready to take that plunge yet.

i have 2 bedrooms empty in my house that i would love to set up as a control room and the other one as a large treated room, or a med size live room with a vocal booth built into it, but im really not sure if this will be way to big of a task with my current budget to do it properly.

so basically its either buy a vocalbooth or spend the money treating the room. im really not sure which way to go though. any opinions on what i should do??

thanks