Upgrading my simple hobby system

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pbouchard

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Summary:

I have been using a very simple computer-based home recording system to compose and arrange original music as a hobby. Up to now, all my arrangements have been MIDI only, using a Roland XP-10 for the instruments sounds. I am ready to upgrade now, in two stages. First, I want to be able to include vocal lines in my recordings. Second, I would like to increase the variety and quality of instrument sounds available to me. I am seeking advice on what equipment to purchase, based on a budget of $1200.

Details:

The sequencer I currently use is Voyetra Digital Orchestrator, although I also own a copy of Cakewalk Home Studio 9. I capture the compositions one track at a time by playing the Roland XP-10, connected via MIDI cable to the sound card. I edit the MIDI tracks as needed, often quite heavily, using Digital Orchestrator. I capture the wave file by playing back the MIDI file to the Roland XP-10, and then running the stereo output of the Roland into the analog input on the sound card. I use Cool Edit 2000 to capture, trim, and compress the wave files.

I use a Windows-based PC with a Pentium III processor running at 1 gigahertz, with a 40 GB hard drive and 128 MB of RAM. The sound card is the Creative SB Live! Value.

In the past few months I’ve taken 15 of the songs that I’ve written over the past 30 years, and arranged them as instrumental compositions for the Roland XP-10. I’ve burned these 15 songs onto a CD, and given copies to a small set of friends and relatives. Now I’m ready for the next steps.

The first step is to create new arrangements of perhaps 10 songs, incorporating vocal tracks. I’ll record one voice at a time, using myself and various friends and relatives. I’ll want to multi-track the voices on most of the songs, sometimes in unison, sometimes in harmony, and sometimes in counterpoint. I am strongly leaning towards purchasing the Studio Projects C1 microphone, although I am certainly open to other suggestions. I have no idea what to purchase to serve as the pre-amp. I am also unsure of how I should configure the system to include a microphone. To date, all my work with the sequencer has been MIDI only, so I am unsure as to how well suited either Digital Orchestrator or Cakewalk 9 will be for the task.

The second step is to add a richer set of sounds to work with. I feel constrained by the limited sounds on the XP-10. My musical styles are an eclectic fusion, but could be described as a blend of world music and new age, combined with influences of pop, Latin, electronic, and classical. I am very interested in working with the sounds of percussion and stringed instruments from around the world. As for wind instruments, I want a good set of traditional sounds, including trumpet, flute, clarinet, and oboe. I use a lot of piano in my songs, and an occasional acoustic guitar. I definitely also want a rich set of electronic sounds. I am somewhat leaning towards the purchase of a Roland JV-1010, but again I am open to other suggestions.

With what remains of the $1200 budget after the above upgrades, I should probably add a better monitor. Right now I primarily rely on a set of Sony CD250 headphones plugged directly into the Roland XP-10, and to a lesser degree on the Altec-Lansing speakers that came with my computer. I could also greatly benefit from a MIDI drum set, instead of hammering the percussion lines onto the keyboard of the Roland. I don’t know what kind of box I should choose to connect the various pieces of equipment to the computer – but I certainly suspect that I will need something. And of course, there is a chance that my $1200 budget really ought to include some additional software.

Given all of the above, how should I allocate my budget of $1200? And how should I connect the components that I buy? Thanks for any advice that you can offer!
 
P--

I like your story. We all have one, but I like the helpful background you offer in your post. I couldn't begin to offer
suggestions, though--I'll leave this to the real pros here, and there are some. What I would suggest, however, is to begin searching here (use the *search* key) and elsewhere (e.g., google) for various discussions related to cheap microphones, monitors, and the like. You'll find loads of past discussion of these issues--I know because of done similar searches for hours and come up with excellent suggestions... to *begin* my own search.

The key to keep in mind is that reviews of this equipment are very subjective, so opinions will vary widely on the same piece of
gear. I just bought some fine little $300 monitors (M-Audio BX5) yesterday, for example, after weighing all the reviews (mostly good, but some real stinkers) and then listening to as many monitors as I could in the stores. In short, I couldn't be happier with them--for the price--and can barely understand how a few folks blasted them in reviews. Hence, my warning of caution when reading anyone's opinion. Your ears have preferences, so take what you can from such threads and then go play and listen before deciding. Don't trust anyone besides your family, and even then not when it comes to musical gear. End of sermon.

Good luck to you and your admirable endeavors! Hope you have some fun with your search, which is a key part of the experience.

Best,

J.
 
I agree with jeffree. Do a search in the various forums to help you decide what you need. Is $1200 all you will ever have for your system. Does everything need to be upgraded at once?

If you want a decent setup fro $1,200 now...

Microphone: Marshal V67 ($100)
Mic preamp: M-Audio DMP3 ($200) or cheaper
Soundcard: M-Audio Delta Audiophile ($150)
Powered Monitors--your choice ($400)
That leaves you about $400 for sound module or a softsampler and some samples
 
Thank you, jeffree and tdukex, for your helpful and supportive responses. Both of you provided suggestions that led me to explore new avenues of research – so your comments were greatly appreciated. For example, I had only been researching external interface boxes, such as the Tascam US-122, to link the components together. The suggestion regarding the M-Audio Delta Audiophile led me to examine a completely different approach for configuring the system. I also appreciated the suggestions regarding the monitor, the pre-amp, and the microphone – along with the strategic ideas for continuing my search.

Partly in response to your suggestions, I decided to investigate several forums on the Home Recording BBS that I had skipped over prior to now. I was pleased to find useful discussions in many different locations – including some places that I had not previously guessed to be relevant to my current needs. I think that this is a great BBS – full of helpful pointers.

I found one interesting discussion regarding the Tascam US-122. No one in the entire thread mentioned using a pre-amp with this box, so now I wonder if this might be a low-cost alternative to buying both a pre-amp and a new sound card. (More research needed!)

I don’t really intend to spend my entire $1200 budget all at once. I’ll probably buy a piece at a time, taking as long as 6 months to use up the budget. My top priority is the microphone and supporting equipment so that I can add vocal tracks to my recordings. Soon thereafter I hope to buy my first additional sound module, such as the Roland JV-1010 or perhaps a used JV-2080. The other parts are lower priority. However, I wanted to get a picture now of where I am heading with this system – especially how I intend to configure the system once I have acquired all the parts.

Thanks again for your help!
 
As an alternative to the C1, consider a Studio Projects B1 and a clean, inexpensive preamp. The B1 is a little brother to the C1, but is being recognized as a "sleeper" mic, performing way, way outside of its price range. I have a couple (as well as a C3) and find them to be extremely easy to use and versatile. Because the mic is under a hundred bucks, you could get lots of bang for the buck using it in connection with other gear. For instance -

Consider

1. An M-audio DMP3 preamp ($200 or less) or a Presonus or ART entry level premp (about $100);

2. An SP B1 mic (about $ 80);

3. A FMR Audio RNC compressor (about $150).

That could give you a really healthy mic / preamp / compressor path for as little as $330. Skip the compressor (depending on onboard compression) and you're under $200.
 
Just to add that I've been researching low-cost (sub $100) mics myself for the past month. I thought I'd found one of the best in Behringer's B1, but more research has led me to buy the Studio Project B1 that Treeline mentions. You'll find some very interesting discussions about it at this very site if you search--you'll even find a few messages from the company's owner, whom I contacted personally with good results. A good choice.

Best,
J.
 
pbouchard said:
I found one interesting discussion regarding the Tascam US-122. No one in the entire thread mentioned using a pre-amp with this box, so now I wonder if this might be a low-cost alternative to buying both a pre-amp and a new sound card. (More research needed!)

The Tascam appears to have built-in preamps. This box will give you a lot of mobility, but I don't know how good the preamps or converters are. I'm sure they are decent quality.
 
Thanks, Treeline, jeffree, and tdukex!

I’m seeing a lot of consensus in the various forums that the Studio Projects B1 is a very good, cheap mic for vocals and general use. I’m also seeing an extraordinary consensus behind the M-Audio DMP3 preamp. I haven’t yet run across any discussions of compressors, nor have I researched that topic yet, but my research will start with the FMR Audio RNC compressor recommended by Treeline.

Now, let’s assume that I purchase the SP B1, DMP3, and RNC in order to add vocal tracks to my recordings. I presume that I’ll probably need to buy a new sound card (such as the M-Audio Delta Audiophile recommended by tdukex) in order to combine the multiple signals when I record. This leads to the areas I am still most fuzzy about – configuration and logistics.

My current system is incredibly simple. The only sound source is the XP-10. I do all the editing on the MIDI tracks in the sequencer until the XP-10 produces just the right output, and then I run the stereo output of the XP-10 into my Sound Blaster Live card and capture it with Cool Edit 2000 (which only supports 2 tracks, unless I upgrade). It will be a completely different story when I add vocals to this workflow. Furthermore, I’m planning to add another sound module quite soon. Certainly my configuration will need to change, but I suspect that the logistics of my process will also need to change.

As I add vocal tracks one at a time to my songs, my sequencer will need to smoothly handle a combination of MIDI tracks and wave tracks. When I do playback, sound will be emanating from multiple devices. When I am pleased with the rough mix, what do I do next? I really don’t imagine that I can capture all of these sound sources at once into a 2-track mix and be happy with the results. I presume that I’ll need to capture the stereo output of each MIDI sound source as a pair of wave files, keeping the tracks separate. Am I correct? So, I’ll end up with two wave tracks for the output of the XP-10, two wave tracks for the output of the second sound module, and however many vocals tracks I’ve created. Am I on the right track here? At this point I’ll finally be able to do the final mixing down to 2 tracks.

Let me know if my assumptions are correct! Or if there are alternative approaches that I’m failing to see, please let me know! Thanks!
 
Well, now that I’ve thought about it for another day, the assumptions I stated above (regarding the logistics of recording using a combination of MIDI and wave tracks) seem a little bit ridiculous. But I’ve strayed off topic for the “Other Equipment” forum, so I’ll reformulate my question and post it in a more appropriate forum.

Anyway, thanks again to everyone for offering such useful advice regarding what equipment to research!
 
While you're looking at cards, check out Aardvark and the LynxOne cards - a little more pricey but really fine interfaces.
 
You will definitely need a sequencer with multiple tracks. For soundcards I use both an M-Audio Dman 2044 (predecessor to the Delta 44) for recording and a Soundblaster Live for MIDI. During the initial mixing and stages I use the Live card as my output source because with it I can hear both MIDI and audio tracks. Once I am satisfied with the MIDI tacks I record them as audio and then use the Dman outputs to do critical listening and mixing.

If it matters, the Audiophile will record two tracks at once. The Delta 44 will record four tracks at once.
 
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