updated version of song after EQing help from all you awesome people!

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ColdToTheTouch

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new song uploaded..complaints expected

www.soundclick.com/selfwillrunriot

check out "Sentenced to Lose"

advice, opinions and complaints will be appreciated

im new to the whole mixing/mastering phase..Im a pretty decent songwriter, learning how to sing and scream better, but the recording process is overwhelming. please help! im unsure about eq'ing, so if anybody could point me in the right direction, it would be a big help
 
there is a wall of mud thats burying the bass...try a high pass on all the guitars to around 50hz to free up some lower frequencies...also turn the distortion gain down on them if you are just hard panning them...individually you'll notice a difference but tohether they should sound just as heavy but less muddy..

I dont know the genre but it certainly rocks...are you going to put vocals on it? and do the kicks seriously sound like that on this kinds stuff? ;)
 
i posted a newer version of the song "sentenced to lose" with vocals.. Im on another computer and I didnt realize i recorded the master way too high, and the fade out at the end it too abrupt.. and I have no idea what a high pass is..(im kinda new to this) is that using high eq's? im so confused when it comes to eq's.. I dont know where to start? when I get home Im gonna do another master thats lower...and I know the vocals are probably too high. please let me know what I can do..and if u can, can u kinda speak like Im an idiot, because like I said, im new, so all the technical terms go in one ear and out the other ..thanks
 
ColdToTheTouch said:
i posted a newer version of the song "sentenced to lose" with vocals.. Im on another computer and I didnt realize i recorded the master way too high, and the fade out at the end it too abrupt.. and I have no idea what a high pass is..(im kinda new to this) is that using high eq's? im so confused when it comes to eq's.. I dont know where to start? when I get home Im gonna do another master thats lower...and I know the vocals are probably too high. please let me know what I can do..and if u can, can u kinda speak like Im an idiot, because like I said, im new, so all the technical terms go in one ear and out the other ..thanks
Click to expand...

This is a great place to start learning...but you're going to have to do a fair bit of reading Im afraid...no real shortcuts to it

for starter forget about the term mastering, that's basically getting a bunch of tunes to the same level and EQing for an album say..what you are attempting here is mixing

give all your mixes plenty of headroom...mix to around 14db loudness, dont worry about volume just now..it doesnt matter until you master the basics...this way your never struggling to get a tracks loudness to fit the mix or pushing your master bus

a high pass EQ is like and upside down hockey stick that sweeps away all frequencies under it...anything below say 50hz should be the domain of your bass and your kick, nothing else really

high_pass_filter.jpg


the lighter shade to the right is the frequencies you hear...a low pass has the opposite effect

think of the mix in front of you as a 3D semi circle in front of you that you have to place each instrument in...panning gives you width, EQing gives you height, delay/reverb gives you depth...adjust your instruments with these effects to give them space in that 3D world..keep the kick, snare, and bass in the middle as the anchors then go wild with the rest, your ears dictate what's right, fuck any other rules ;)

(I generally get the drums to around 14db then the bass, then mix everything in with them...the biggest mistake you'll hear in this forum is drums..levels and EQing..trust me lol)

this guide has the chapters to give you most of the info you need

http://www.tweakheadz.com/guide.htm


but feel free to ask any questions, use the appropriate forums and you'll get better answers...keep sticking your mixes up here and comment and listen to others...inexperience doesnt mean you dont have good ears..or PM me if you think its too stupid a question..Im only a few levels ahead of you :)
 
thank u for your patience

hey man thanks for your patience.. well, i think i understand alittle bit about what u were saying. I downloaded WavePad and Im trying to do what u told me to with the high pass on guitars u said to try it @ 50hz.. now is that the pass or the slope frequency?
when i change either, the *upside down hockey stick" is no longer an upside down hockey stick.. if i do that to the pass,, it goes flat and if its the slope, it goes straight up. im sorry if im not making any sense.. i just noticed u were using a high pass filter in the image above when i saved the pic....
 
say you had an EQ with five dots along a straight line...you should be able to change dot 1 (far left) to a high pass filter in a menu/button either below or at the side of the graphic display...then move it to the right (not up or down) to roughly 50Hz (this is just a guideline)

it will have to be in a high pass filter mode...which will look like the upside down hockey stick or written in text...or it wont perform a sweep


dont worry about patience..I have tonnes, we all do, just keep talking until you get it :)
 
Like I told you in PM, I'm still having trouble getting soundclick up tonight. Looking forward to hearing it, though.:D
 
Holy shit!!!

after about 5 hours of trying to understand this EQ thing... i finally got it..I dont even know how to put into words how fu*kin awesome the guitars sound...now.."keep the kick, snare, and bass in the middle as the anchors then go wild with the rest, your ears dictate what's right, fuck any other rules"..so dont touch drums or bass with Eq? what about vocals... both metal screaming/growling, and melodic singing? you all have been so much help to me.. i cannot stop smiling.. this sounds so epic!!! no sleep for me 2nite... only mixing the doctor ordered...
 
I finally figured out alittle bit about why eq was needed on my guitar tracks thanks to all of you.. i got a pretty good sound now.. but my vocals just seem plain now. I added alittle reverb but it just doesnt stand out? do I eq the vocals? what other FX can i add? what else do I need to do to this .. i appreciate all your help.. http://soundclick.com/share?songid=8519019

i originally posted this on the mixing forum.. but i guess someone thought it didnt belong there
 
I would start with compression on the vox track to bring it more out front. Still unable to discern the words and the lower parts don't cut through at all. Perhaps a touch of ducking when the vox come in and a little HF eq boost. Nice song dude.
 
ColdToTheTouch said:
www.soundclick.com/selfwillrunriot

check out "Sentenced to Lose"

advice, opinions and complaints will be appreciated

im new to the whole mixing/mastering phase..Im a pretty decent songwriter, learning how to sing and scream better, but the recording process is overwhelming. please help! im unsure about eq'ing, so if anybody could point me in the right direction, it would be a big help
Click to expand...

This sounds like it would sound live if you were sitting in the drummer's lap, the skins are HUGE in the mix, especially the kick; exacerbated by the lack of edge and presence in the guitars.

Like kcearl said, I'd high pass the guitars; I think you could even get away with 100Hz

The vox need a lot more presence too; both in level, and in the 2-4KHz EQ range...

Good material; and challenging to work with. You might want to try mixing it with the drums muted. Get it so you can hear details in all the other tracks. Then slowly bring the drum submix in until you hear it punch but not overwhelm, and that's gonna be pretty close.

The "ears make the rules" thing applies, but it only applies if your monitoring system is not adding its own colors to the sound, so if you have cheap speakers you have to compensate for their deficiencies. Take the mix to other sources to listen to them, your car, a boom box, etc. Get a feel for the "real world" sounds.
 
ColdToTheTouch said:
after about 5 hours of trying to understand this EQ thing... i finally got it..I dont even know how to put into words how fu*kin awesome the guitars sound...now.."keep the kick, snare, and bass in the middle as the anchors then go wild with the rest, your ears dictate what's right, fuck any other rules"..so dont touch drums or bass with Eq? what about vocals... both metal screaming/growling, and melodic singing? you all have been so much help to me.. i cannot stop smiling.. this sounds so epic!!! no sleep for me 2nite... only mixing the doctor ordered...
Click to expand...

no you EQ them as need be like anything else just try not to pan them away from centre....unless you want to ;)
 
Llarion said:
The vox need a lot more presence too; both in level, and in the 2-4KHz EQ range...
Click to expand...

now...(early apology) can u explain that to me alitte bit like how they explained to me about the "upside down hockey stick".. what type of EQ setting would I use, or which points would I "drag" to 2-4 Khz?
 
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tlennon1 said:
I would start with compression on the vox track to bring it more out front. Still unable to discern the words and the lower parts don't cut through at all. Perhaps a touch of ducking when the vox come in and a little HF eq boost. Nice song dude.
Click to expand...

what do you mean by "ducking?" and im kinda new to EQing, so which points and how "high" or which Frequency should I bring them too... so I should bring the levels up as well? i sang the vox pretty clear, but you think compression and some HF EQ'ing would make them clearer?
 
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Yup, you should post your tunes here in the MP3 Clinic for people to listen and help out. That's what this place is for. And hey, you've got two threads going for one song, so I'm going to merge the two together. It'll be easier for all of us. Just keep your updates in the one thread per song.

I listened a little. The kick is overbearing, especially the click in the 2khz region. When you start mixing, just have the kick, the bass and the vocal up, everything else down. Find the balance between them. Then bring in the snare, hats and cymbals. Find the balance. Then bring in everything else in a supporting role.

Song has good potential, I like what you've got going so far.

peace.
 
ColdToTheTouch said:
now...(early apology) can u explain that to me alitte bit like how they explained to me about the "upside down hockey stick".. what type of EQ setting would I use, or which points would I "drag" to 2-4 Khz?
Click to expand...

What I mean more specifically is that I would adjust the EQ (at whatever frequencies you have that sit between 2KHz and 4KHz) up a smidgen. It will give the vocals more presence, and make them "cut" better in the mix withut having to boost the levels up. This kind of adjustment is done in very small doses, and takes a little practice to not only hear the difference, but to decide how much is enough.

Chili, your technique suggestionis interesting. I do the exact opposite on instrumental tunes; I do a good drum submix, then pull them out completely, then get a good balance on everything else, then slide the drum submix up until it sits right. I wonder if your way might be better for vocal tunes; I mostly work with instrumentals... Hmm.
 
Llarion said:
Chili, your technique suggestionis interesting. I do the exact opposite on instrumental tunes; I do a good drum submix, then pull them out completely, then get a good balance on everything else, then slide the drum submix up until it sits right. I wonder if your way might be better for vocal tunes; I mostly work with instrumentals... Hmm.
Click to expand...

Hey Llarion, I remember you saying that recently on one of your songs and it stood out to me. I'm no expert at anything ( :eek: ), but I think the difference might be more prevalent across genres rather than vocals or instrumentals. In pop/rock, the beat is everything, in jazz and easy listening, maybe not so much, probably more about interactions between instruments and the flow of the song. IDK. My idea is to build the foundation with the beat and the main melody then add support with everything else. i think I picked that little tip up from somewhere in the pages of this site a long time ago. Still stuck in my head.

cheers,
 
Chili said:
Hey Llarion, I remember you saying that recently on one of your songs and it stood out to me. I'm no expert at anything ( :eek: ), but I think the difference might be more prevalent across genres rather than vocals or instrumentals. In pop/rock, the beat is everything, in jazz and easy listening, maybe not so much, probably more about interactions between instruments and the flow of the song. IDK. My idea is to build the foundation with the beat and the main melody then add support with everything else. i think I picked that little tip up from somewhere in the pages of this site a long time ago. Still stuck in my head.

cheers,
Click to expand...
Well, it makes an awful lot of sense. :) I'll have to mess around with this idea... :D
 
the problem with my drums are.... the fact i used looped samples in FL studio..im so damn overwhelmed.. what can i do then? im in kindof a "confined situation" where my equipment is limited because im in a "halfway house".. i got my 8 track...guitar, amp, bass, condenser mic, and shitty laptop.. im trying as best i can to get this to sound decent though. and I recorded the VOX in a bathroom...do my vocals suck tho? im new to the singing part
 
listening to the updated version the music is night and day compared to the first mix...

just remember you've got to walk before you run so dont worry if its a bit overwhelming that's natural...

a good way to learn programming drums is to us midi files and removing parts on them bit by bit, gradually start programming you own percussion..keeping just the kick and snare...then eventually start doing the snare yourself...then it all...just takes practise, until then loops are fine

Im not sure about the vocals as I dont listen to the genre...the screaming stuff sounded as it does on most of this stuff to me...so thats a good thing ;)...the singing parts seemed off key a little...bit more practise I think


dont be hard on yourself...you definitely got the ability to produce this stuff...couple of mixes down the line you'll wonder what the fuss was about :)
 
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