Unlocking the secrets of locking tuners?

  • Thread starter Thread starter GT
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Electric guitar won't stay in tune, for more than about one song. I have Grovers on now. Thought maybe Fenders would be better, don't know.

Bottom line: Playing is hard enough, without having to tune all the time!

Does anyone know of tuners you can swear by, instead of swear at?

Help!!
 
how hard are you hitting your strings? what guage do yuo use? what kind of guitar? tremelo?
 
Grover and Shaller has got to be the best tuners on the market...my opinion only.....are you properly stretching your strings when you string them? How old are the strings you are having trouble with?...Is it properly set-up and intonated?...

Come to think of it, why would tuners matter if you have a locking system?....
 
Just have 5 different guitars you take on stage, and a tech to tune them up for you between songs :)

You may think I'm kidding, but I'm serious...it's easy to find a stupid kid that knows how to use a tuner and thinks you're so cool that he'll do it just to be seen with you.:) So what he's not a tech, but he can work a tuner....maybe a monkey would even work...IF you can train monkeys, that is.

OK, NOW im kidding...

H2H
 
Hey ametth,

I don't hit the strings that hard, I use medium gauge strings.

I do like to bend them if the song calls for it, and most songs do. This is what wipes them out. No tremelo.

I was just thinking that maybe Fender has better tuners than the ones that are normally available to buy seperately.

I mean do real strats have to be tuned this much.

Anyway, I supose it's one of those "such is life" type of things.

Gidge,

You know the two high strings, I mean do you have a guitar that you can bend these strings, and then play a chord and have it be in tune, if so what guitar is it.

I never play anything but the finest of old strings.

Hard2Hear,

The five guitars are a little out of my price range (a lot).

How much are trained monkeys going for these days, and what else can they do besides tune guitars, if you know what I mean.
 
Lemme ask you this...

How do you know it's the tuners that are at fault? Is your guitar cheap? Does it have a bolt on neck? Guitars with thin and/or loose necks will often go out of tune regardless of the tuners.

I'm assuming that you're always tuning up, and never down, correct? Take several wraps around the tuner peg, not just one or two. Also, take a screw driver and tighten any screws on the machines.

Are you correctly stretching the string? Man you've really got to reef on them for a good long time before they'll hit a consistant length.

I'm just brainstorming here.

Slackmaster 2000
 
GT-

If you're lucky enough to get one, trained monkeys are also excellent at making breakfast. Ask Gidge. He knows.
 
Hix, they look pretty good in lingere'...can you say monkey style?......
 
Thanks Slack,

I think I will go to Sam Ash, grab a real strat, ( I have an Alverez copy, love this guitar) and play it real hard and see if it stays in tune.

It's the only way to be sure it's not just my guitar.

I have a feeling that most electrics have to be tuned a lot, like I said "such is life".

Maybe tuning is gods way of telling us to slow down.
 
Hey GT, I had the EXACT SAME problem with my Jazz bass! I found they spraying on some graphite helped in sem-locking the tuning machinisms.
 
"Floating" tremolo bridges on strat-style axes transmit the tension from string to string.Want to check?Use your whammy bar to dive bomb the little E as you simultaniously play the big E.Hear the low E change pitch?
You can eliminate this particular evil by setting the base of the trem bridge flat on the body.Use all 5 springs and at least .10s
Many of you may have had the ultimate out-of-tune experience with a floating bridge where a string breaks.I was at a blues club on jam nite once and I was playing a borrowed mexican strat set up with a floater.During the solo in "Cold Shot" I broke my little E and the floating bridge re-distributed the remaining tension evenly among the rest of the strings.Some went up,some went down.I was fucked and everyone was watching.Couldn't continue on the remaining strings and couldn't re-tune.
This may not be your exact problem,but it may be a possibility.As for locking tuners,that hideous curse should be best left unmentioned.Ever try to change a string on stage with a locking tuners?I can feel a collective shudder sweep the room.

Tom
 
Sorry fellows.The check I was referring to involved BENDING the high E as you play the low E,not tremolo dive.
Mea culpa.

Tom
 
get a better guitar wit ha locking nut. And make sure it is "set up" for the tuning you play in.

If you play even semi rocking tunes a locking nut is important. thereare a few high end models that will not require them jsut becuaseof the way they are made.
 
With cheap import guitars, the nuts are usually made of plastic, and not cut very well. They're usually cut for light strings also. What usually ends up happening is that the strings bind in the nut slots. So while you're tuning, the strings bind up a bit in the slots, but the guitar sounds in tune. Then when you bend the string, it "unbinds" and the string goes flat. A simple fix is to take a sharp pencil or a mechanical pencil, and run it back and forth in the nut slot each time you change strings. Also, put a dab of light oil on a Q-Tip and lightly apply it to the string trees and your saddles where the strings make contact. This will greatly reduce the binding.

I love cheap imports. Nuts are cheap, and good tuners are too. But cheap tuners don't go out of tune that easily. Their only real flaw is a low gear ratio, which makes it difficult to finely tune the strings. They're often a 10:1 or 12:1 ratio, so you end up overshooting where you want to be...then you undershoot...overshoot...etc...until you get it right where you want it.

Use the tips I gave you the next time you change strings...and stretch the hell out of them...and you should see a dramatic improvement.

You don't need a locking tremelo system to stay pretty well in tune, even if you play hard.
 
Thanks jeffteel,

That's sounds like a very logical answer, and will definately give it a try.

Yeah, I've got a cheap import, but for the life of me I don't know what's cheap about it but the price. It seems to be superbly crafted, and the finish is beautiful. I think I like the feel of the neck better than a real Strat.

Thanks again!!
 
Other workarounds

Tuning problems due to bending or whammy bar use are caused by two things: strings slipping when and where they shouldn't, and strings not slipping when and where they should.

Two specific problems I've run into are strings sticking in the nut, and the twists on the ball end of the string collapsing when the string is bent.

Jeff Teel already covered this, but... sticking at the nut can be reduced by installing a Graphtech nut, or by using some kind of lubricant. If your nut is black, ordinary powdered graphite (or even pencil lead!) is a good choice. For white nuts, you can buy a powdered Teflon lubricant at hobby shops. Or try using good old 3-in-1 Oil -- just a dab applied with a toothpick should be plenty, any more will just soak into the wood.

If you're buying a new guitar, and you don't need a 3-on-a-side traditional headstock for appearance's sake, go for a headstock design that pulls the string straight through the nut.

As for the ball ends slipping, you can either solder your strings if you're cheap and have time to do this at every string change, or you can buy "tremelo reinforced" strings. I've used GHS Tremelo Boomers with great success, and D'Addario offers pre-soldered strings. Both are only slightly more expensive than their regular strings.

If you use traditional tuning pegs, how you wrap the string makes a big difference. Any of the guitar setup/repair books will have tricks for locking down the string on the peg. Or see www.frets.com.

Last, if your guitar has Sperzel locking tuners or similar, you should wrap the bare minimum of string around the tuner to get to pitch. The less string on the tuner, the less likely it is to slip and stretch when you bend or dive-bomb. The instructions that came with my Carvin say 3/4 of a turn max! I get there by pulling the string taut by hand before locking down the tuner.
 
jeffteel,

Who da man? YOU, YOU da man, dat's who!!!

After all these years of not knowing what the reason was for having to tune so damn much.

You come along, and with one swipe of the keypad, solve the problem.

I got out my wife's sewing machine oil, and oiled the slots on the nut, the slots on the bridge saddles, the tuners, and the tuner trees. Viva la differance (Holy Smokes).

Your Home Recording merit badge is in the mail.

Thanks again for sharing this secret, I promise not to tell!!

GT
 
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Yeah, it never fails to impress. I've been doing it for a long time. I don't know why it isn't more common knowledge than it is. You'll also notice that you break a lot fewer strings than before. Most strings break at the saddle...at least for me. The oil on the saddles reduces friction quite a bit. I used to break a high E or B within 3 or 4 days of putting strings on. That was okay when I changed strings a couple times a week anyhow. Now that I don't play out much anymore, this technique helps me extend the life of my strings to 3+ weeks.
 
jeff

groupies don't give a crap about that kind of shit
 
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