Understanding MIDI when recording

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ggomez83

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Hi,

I´m not an expert about recording, I just do it to create demos for fun (at least for now)
Recently I started investigating a lot about MIDI, in order to take advantage of this when recording, perhaps somebody could help me to understand some specific doubts that I have.

At this moment I´m working with a MIDI stage piano (Kurzweil SP3X), the SW Reaper (under evaluation) and an Audiobox USB (Presonus), I have succesfully configured the MIDI so when I record any track I´m able to do it in MIDI format, but unfortunately it seems that just the data is recorded, because when you play it you can´t hear anything or even get any signal in the Master.

This is clear for myself, I understand that MIDI is just a set of instructions that when properly decoded by any synth will create sound, but I was expecting that it would be always possible to record as a MIDI track using the SP3X while keeping the original Audio, with the possibility to edit the track with the advantages of MIDI.

So far, I´ve been able to either record in Midi (no Audio), or the Audio (no MIDI), I would like to know if it is possible to record both Audio and MIDI in the same track while keeping the possibility to edit the MIDI and get the changes in the Audio. Does this make any sense?

Please advise!
 
No idea on reaper, but something sounds a bit odd here.

I'm assuming that you have the midi drivers installed, and you have the SP3X out DIN cable connected to the Audiobox MIDI in, and another cable from the out going back to the in on the SP3X?

In reaper does anything happen when you select the appropriate MIDI in, and record? Do note events appear in the blank track? Then on replay, I assume you route the MIDI track, probably on ch1 to the Audiobox output. On replay the Kurzweil should replay what you recorded. In Cubase, my software, it's simply a case of creating a MIDI track, selecting the input, hitting record and off you go. I can't think Reaper is much different. Your audio output from the keyboard is what you listen to. If you need to record that audio, then stuff it into the audiobox and then record it, in the same way you'd do from a mic or guitar. Once it's in, as audio, you won't need the MIDI track any more.

If Reaper is the same as Cubase, you have a different type track for each type of input. Audio is Audio and MIDI data is simply the instructions for something to make some sound. MIDI and the audio are two totally separate things. In your setup, the keyboard produces the music from either real time playing, or a prerecorded MIDI track - which is just note info, not music. I think you may have misunderstood what MIDI actually is. In my studio here, I've been doing this kind of thing all day. I play a stage piano, that makes piano-ish sounds, but has a nice keyboard. The volume control on this is fully down, the actual piano I hear is a VSTi, inside Cubase. I play the piano, don't use it's own sound, and MIDI takes the playing into Cubase, where the sound is created. I also have a Korg Triton, and I do use some of the weird sounds it has. So the master keyboard goes to cubase as usual, and in the software, the OUTPUT of the track goes back out of another MIDI output to the Triton. So when I play the master keyboard, I'm actually playing the Triton onboard sounds. Once the notes are right, and I've perhaps edited and repaired what I played, I route the Triton audio to an input on the D/A, and set one cubase track to be an audio track, that will record the Triton audio. I press record on that track and the MIDI track plays the triton, which then has the audio recorded on a new track. Then I can eq, add effects etc etc. That sounds complicated, but isn't really. Does that make sense in the context of Reaper - which I'm sure is very similar.

You just need to separate MIDI and audio in your head. If you want to edit, then there is no point recording the audio until you finish getting the notes right - recording my external stuff, rather than having MIDI play it is the last task before mix down.
 
Here's what you want to do:

1. Set up a track to record the MIDI output from your keyboard. We'll call this Track 1. Sound's like you've got that covered, but just in case: Right click on the red Record Arm button (on the track, not the master Record button) to bring up an options menu. Select: Record Input: MIDI, and select the MIDI port connected to your keyboard.

2. Route the MIDI output from Track 1 back to the MIDI in on your keyboard. Click on the IO button on the track. Select MIDI Hardware Output and the port where your keyboard is connected. Now can record MIDI from your keyboard to the track, and send it back to keyboard on playback.

3. Set up another track, Track 2, to record the audio output from your keyboard. If your keyboard audio output is stereo, this set this track to record stereo. You will also use this track to monitor the audio of your keyboard while you are recording MIDI to Track 1. Right click on the Record Arm button of the track. Select Input Stereo (assuming you are using stereo) and select two input channels on your A/D box. Right click again on the Record Arm button of the track. Select Monitor Input. This allows you to hear the audio from your keyboard to this channel.

4. Patch the audio output of your keyboard to two input channels (L and R) on your A/D box or sound card. You're ready to rock!

Hope this helps.
 
Hi Rob!

Thanks for your answer.
The Midi drivers are installed (Reaper recognizes the device and it is already chosen as the input device), as for the Connection from Kurzweil is as you stated, out from SP3X to in AudioBox.

When I record the track, I specify the option to record the MIDI, once you start recording you can see that the track is being recorded properly (in MIDI format), but as soon as you playback, I don´t get any sound, (it is not a matter of volume) because you can see that there´s not any gain in the Master volume.

So, what I understand from you is actually that when you record MIDI you just record a set of instructions that later needs to be processed by a synth or SW, right? I had in my mind that it was actually possible to record in real time any Audio track with MIDI instructions that could be edited in a same channel.

So, lets say that I just record the MIDI with my keyboard, and then later I can assign any sound, sustain, edit notes, etc, etc, etc using a VSTi in my computer, is this right?
 
Hi Robus,

I´ll try it as soon as I´m back to my "home studio" hehe.
I´ll let you know how it went. Thanks so much for your clear instructions!
 
Hey Robus,

I just tried what you said, this is exactly what I was expecting!
What I was missing is that I need first to sent back the data to the SP3X, so it can be played back. This way I can record the MIDI, and then as soon as I`m comfortable with the way it is played, I can playback on my keyboard and record it back on Reaper.

This was very helpful, thank you so much
 
Hey Rob, thanks for your explanation as well, know it is more clear for myself the usage of MIDI, thanks to this I can record anything on Reaper as MIDI and then use it for many different things.
 
Glad it worked out. Buy that Reaper license when your trial period ends. It's the best $60 you'll ever spend--full featured, frequently updates, and an active Reaper community that develops freeware tools and addons. Take some time to listen and comment on the tracks people are uploading on the MP3 clinic. When you need advice on your own recordings, we'll do the same for you.
 
Yeah, I´d definitely buy the Reaper license, I think it is a highly functional SW for people that are just starting at a very reasonable price. I´ll also pay a visit to the MP3 clinic.

Thanks again!
 
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