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Good Friend
New member
Is this a piece of instant magic history or just an overhyped decent mic?
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Harvey Gerst
New member
During its best years, it was magic. It made you sound like God was talking.Good Friend said:
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slobbermonster
New member
it's a thing of absolute beauty - if you get a good one.
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The Garage
New member
i think it depends on the particular u47 you are using -- they don't all sound the same. it depends what it's recording -- it can't turn a big mac into filet mignon. and it depends on what your mix is calling for. i've chosen other mics over a u47 before. but when it works, MAN does it work!
X
xstatic
New member
The U47 is certainly the real deal. They do all sound different, but in general, they still all sound pretty darned good
ausrock
Well-known member
Have you got a specific reason for asking this question...............i.e: are you looking at a U47 that's for sale?
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Harvey Gerst
New member
Most of my experience with the U47's was in the 60's - when they were still new. They were very consistent, until the PVC started hardening in the 70's and 80's. You hafta understand how these diaphragms were made and how they differ from mylar; it's important:
Mylar is a "drawn" material, it's pulled into a thin sheet. It has direction (grain), and it has variations (thickness). It wasn't available when the U47 was designed, so Georg Neumann had to use another flexible material for the diaphragm and he settled on polyvinylchloride (PVC) as his support. It was actually a wonderful choice.
It was available as a liquid so it could be poured into a puddle and left to dry; no grain, and even thickness, thanks to surface tension. A brilliant and fairly cheap solution.
The only problem is that PVC continues to harden (helped by the heat of the tube) until it finally starts getting very stiff and it starts to crack, although it takes years for that to occur. They aged at different rates, depending on how long they were subject to heat and drying. They all sound different now, but they didn't back then.
The original diaphragm for the U47 was 8-10 microns thick - pretty thick by todays standards. I think the thickness and the choice of material contributes to that sound, along with the tube and transformer they used. Microtek Gefell is still making those poured PVC diaphragms and would probably be considered the heirs to that branch of Neumann sound.
Mylar is a "drawn" material, it's pulled into a thin sheet. It has direction (grain), and it has variations (thickness). It wasn't available when the U47 was designed, so Georg Neumann had to use another flexible material for the diaphragm and he settled on polyvinylchloride (PVC) as his support. It was actually a wonderful choice.
It was available as a liquid so it could be poured into a puddle and left to dry; no grain, and even thickness, thanks to surface tension. A brilliant and fairly cheap solution.
The only problem is that PVC continues to harden (helped by the heat of the tube) until it finally starts getting very stiff and it starts to crack, although it takes years for that to occur. They aged at different rates, depending on how long they were subject to heat and drying. They all sound different now, but they didn't back then.
The original diaphragm for the U47 was 8-10 microns thick - pretty thick by todays standards. I think the thickness and the choice of material contributes to that sound, along with the tube and transformer they used. Microtek Gefell is still making those poured PVC diaphragms and would probably be considered the heirs to that branch of Neumann sound.
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G
Good Friend
New member
Thanks for the responses. I respect you Harvey. Heres the deal, i am into old music. I only dig the recordings from the 60s and 70s. I am not dumb enough to think that a mic can make a bad song good. Or a new sound "old". I am just wanting a sound that i can tolerate, but i can only tolerate old recordings. And even though i am young and poor it is becoming worth everything to me to hear my recordings sound even half of what i want them to sound like. I put up condenser mics and i hate the sound. Brittle, harsh and too revealing for me. I only have ever liked two mics that ive tried and both were 60s mics, a dynamic and a ribbon (ive had limited mic exposure). Ive disliked every chinese modern mic ive tried. So thats why im asking about old tube mics. I am looking for a solution to my problem. Does anyone know how the rode "classics" sound? Do they really sound like the old mics?
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Harvey Gerst
New member
I have a pretty large collection of old ribbon mics and dynamic mics. Part of the "charm", "magic", "whatever" of those recordings is the rest of the signal chain: Ampex tape recorders, McIntosh amplifiers, JBL or URIE speakers, old mixing boards, and mainly, people who knew how to use all that stuff.
But, in answer to your question, I've heard some inexpensive mics that do seem to emulate that "old" sound; the MXL V67 and the Oktava MC012 body (with the Lomo 33mm capsule) for the old Neumann sound, and the Studio Projects T3 for more of the Telefunken ELA M251/AKG C12 sound. The new AEA R84 ribbon mic is a worthy succesor to the RCA 44BX.
I understand the ADK Vienna and Hamburg are voiced to sound like the C12 and the U47. The Rode K2 is also supposed to be pretty good, but I haven't heard the ADK's or the Rode.
But a lot of it will depend on the mic preamps you mate them with, and the way you record.
No, these new mics won't replace those old mics, but under the right conditions, they can sound amazing similar.
But, in answer to your question, I've heard some inexpensive mics that do seem to emulate that "old" sound; the MXL V67 and the Oktava MC012 body (with the Lomo 33mm capsule) for the old Neumann sound, and the Studio Projects T3 for more of the Telefunken ELA M251/AKG C12 sound. The new AEA R84 ribbon mic is a worthy succesor to the RCA 44BX.
I understand the ADK Vienna and Hamburg are voiced to sound like the C12 and the U47. The Rode K2 is also supposed to be pretty good, but I haven't heard the ADK's or the Rode.
But a lot of it will depend on the mic preamps you mate them with, and the way you record.
No, these new mics won't replace those old mics, but under the right conditions, they can sound amazing similar.
G
Good Friend
New member
thanks
Hey i appreciate it harvey. I read your whole mic thread by the way. And it changed alot of what i thought about recording. I think my problem is im trying to fit 10 lives into my own life. Im trying to be the best songwriter i can, the best drummer i can, the best producer i can, and so on and so on. But really all the genius music of the past was alot of peoples genius all coming together. I bet john lennon would not have known how to record himself in his bedroom and still make it sound like the abbey road recordings. It seems like in the old days musicians needed each other and live performance drove the sound to be better compositionally. But these days everyone wants to be their own hero in their room.
Hey i appreciate it harvey. I read your whole mic thread by the way. And it changed alot of what i thought about recording. I think my problem is im trying to fit 10 lives into my own life. Im trying to be the best songwriter i can, the best drummer i can, the best producer i can, and so on and so on. But really all the genius music of the past was alot of peoples genius all coming together. I bet john lennon would not have known how to record himself in his bedroom and still make it sound like the abbey road recordings. It seems like in the old days musicians needed each other and live performance drove the sound to be better compositionally. But these days everyone wants to be their own hero in their room.
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Good Friend
New member
sound
If i could sound EXACTLY like Hermans Hermits recordings i would. EXACTLY.
If i could sound EXACTLY like Hermans Hermits recordings i would. EXACTLY.
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AGCurry
New member
Good Friend said:
LMAO!
I've always liked "I'm Into Something Good"...
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Harvey Gerst
New member
I recorded a group a few years ago where one of the songs was almost a tribute to the Beatles. The guitarist had a Vox AC30 and a Gibson 335. The drummer had a set of Ludwig drums. They had their parts down cold, and I'd bet a lot of people who heard the song thought it was an unreleased Beatles bootleg. It's not hard to do, given decent talent.Good Friend said:
Was it "EXACTLY"? No, but it was probably about 95% of the way there. At that time, our rates were about $75 per song, and it only took a couple of hours.
A Twin Reverb, a Gibson 335, and some palm muting will nail Hermans Hermits guitar sound, for example.
PhilGood
Juice box hero
Harvey Gerst said:
Did you distant mic everything/most things? What mics did you use and what was the placement like?
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Good Friend
New member
sound
I really dig the radio hits of the 60s type sound. Most of the sound comes from arranging only the most essential elements of the song into the tracks. You cannot stum your guitar full chords and have it sound like a 60s radio hit. Because all their parts were voiced so that no instrument was treading on anothers "job" in the song. Right now im using a Vox Phantom 12 Electric into a Fender Super Reverb. I mic it with either a reslo ribbon or a 60s shure 545. Im thinking about saving up and buying an rca 77dx and a rode classic tube mic. Even though the rode is not from the actual 60s i am willing to compromise a bit because its pretty much old technology. I just want something with character.
I really dig the radio hits of the 60s type sound. Most of the sound comes from arranging only the most essential elements of the song into the tracks. You cannot stum your guitar full chords and have it sound like a 60s radio hit. Because all their parts were voiced so that no instrument was treading on anothers "job" in the song. Right now im using a Vox Phantom 12 Electric into a Fender Super Reverb. I mic it with either a reslo ribbon or a 60s shure 545. Im thinking about saving up and buying an rca 77dx and a rode classic tube mic. Even though the rode is not from the actual 60s i am willing to compromise a bit because its pretty much old technology. I just want something with character.
G
Good Friend
New member
singing
Hey harvey, i even try to sing like hermans hermits. Ive wanted that slightly distorted on the loud notes voice sound for forever. I refuse to use a distortion pedal though. Thats not the distortion im looking for.
Hey harvey, i even try to sing like hermans hermits. Ive wanted that slightly distorted on the loud notes voice sound for forever. I refuse to use a distortion pedal though. Thats not the distortion im looking for.