Tuning a bass

  • Thread starter Thread starter Michael Jones
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what is the deal with active pickups anyway?

Somebody told me several years ago, "it's to sell batteries to bass players." I was at the music store the other day, and one of the salesmen was working on a Cirrus 6-string (very pretty bass, by the way). It had a routed-out area for the batteries (takes 2 9-volt): no separate box, just a hole routed in the wood. The guy had a pair of new Peavy brand batteries and they wouldn't fit it the hole. He said the new batteries were bigger than the old ones. "Smart move by Peavy," I said. "Now everybody'll have to buy a new Cirrus so they can use the new batteries."

My Ibanez acoustic bass guitar (speaking of oxymorons) used a battery for the piezo, but it's in a plastic box with a door. Gee, Hartley, don't you think you could spring for a $.50 plastic part for an expensive Cirrus???

Batteries are taking over the world. While we're sleeping batteries are insinuating their way into our lives. You think iPods are for listening to music? Wrong: they're just another life support system for batteries.

Mark my words....
 
lpdeluxe said:
Somebody told me several years ago, "it's to sell batteries to bass players." I was at the music store the other day, and one of the salesmen was working on a Cirrus 6-string (very pretty bass, by the way). It had a routed-out area for the batteries (takes 2 9-volt): no separate box, just a hole routed in the wood. The guy had a pair of new Peavy brand batteries and they wouldn't fit it the hole. He said the new batteries were bigger than the old ones. "Smart move by Peavy," I said. "Now everybody'll have to buy a new Cirrus so they can use the new batteries."

My Ibanez acoustic bass guitar (speaking of oxymorons) used a battery for the piezo, but it's in a plastic box with a door. Gee, Hartley, don't you think you could spring for a $.50 plastic part for an expensive Cirrus???

Batteries are taking over the world. While we're sleeping batteries are insinuating their way into our lives. You think iPods are for listening to music? Wrong: they're just another life support system for batteries.

Mark my words....
Click to expand...

Oh My God! Now you are going to have me looking for a phantom power supply for my bass..... :eek:


:D :D :D :D :D :D
 
Active pickups

EZ's explanation pretty much nailed it. From what I understand, the preamp in active pups is intended to provide a "buffer stage" before the signal gets to your bass amp. This reduces the effect of impedance loading from one amp to another and, thus, keeps the tone of the instrument more consistent. In this sense, I suppose that the theory is similar to the one used by Royer when they designed an active ribbon mic. You all know how much the sound of a mic will change if you vary the input impedance of the preamp that you use, right? Same concept.

By the way, remember that, while there are many basses that have batteries in them, there are very few in which the pickups, themselves, are actually active. EMG is the only company that makes actual active pups, that I can think of. I've got a variety of basses with batteries in them, but none actually have active pickups. Usually, the battery in a bass is used to drive some other kind of preamp circuit, such as a one needed for a piezo, or to provide active equalization, rather than a simple tone knob that just rolls off the high frequencies. Active EQ can be pretty useful on a bass, IMHO. It can increase the tonal versatility of an instrument enormously, and I've chosen to add that feature to some passive basses that I've owned.

Brad
 
I read somewhere that the logic for making basses active - i.e. putting preamps on board, was to get the pre closer to the pickup signal and improve the Signal to Noise ratio. There was some reason why this was more beneficial on basses than 6 strings.
 
Dial tone tuning

Well, I have hit a snag. First thing, my lab coat was in the washer so I'll have to wait until the load is finished and run through the dryer; and now I find my tuner won't pick up the dial tone. The volume is too low. I'll have to try another strategy.

The thing about active preamps (and pickups) is that you can boost, as well as cut, the frequencies with the tone controls. A passive tone control progressively shorts more and more of the treble to ground as you turn it, so obviously there's no way to boost anything. The bass frequencies sound louder only in comparison. Active preamps, on the other hand, let you find a really obnoxious tone and amplify it.
 
Garry Sharp said:
I read somewhere that the logic for making basses active - i.e. putting preamps on board, was to get the pre closer to the pickup signal and improve the Signal to Noise ratio. There was some reason why this was more beneficial on basses than 6 strings.
Click to expand...
I believe you're right, Garry.

Brad
 
As for it being more important to reduce the signal to noise ration on basses, than on guitars, I think I can hazard a guess as to why this might be the case. If you think about the basses that use active electronics (either expensive boutique basses or cheaper basses that are going for that "boutique bass" sound), these basses are shooting for a very natural, acoustic sound -- pretty much just the natural sound of the string, but amplified. An electric guitar, however, usually seeks to get a substantial amount of distortion from both the pickups and the amplifier itself (the exception being hollowbody jazz guitars), so lowering the signal to noise ration wouldn't benefit them as much.

At least, that would be my guess.

Brad
 
Since I've got nothing new to add....
 

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Cool bass, man! Don't recognize the brand. What kind is it?

Brad
 
(reposted in the right thread...)

Only 93 pages to go, but we must try to keep on topic ;)

So, in a moment of inspired brilliance, it has just occurred to me that an active bass will produce a stronger signal to......the tuner :D :D (If, say, the tuner's battery is a bit low or something)

Bingo - back on topic. Please feel free to rep me up for a brilliant post ;) :D
 
Dial tone tuning

As mentioned earlier, I was stymied in my first attempt to determine the pitch of the dial tone due to the low level of the sound coming out of the handset. I altered my methodology, got my lab coat out of the dryer, and took a cordless telephone out to the studio.

Signal chain: Shure SM81 (on shock-mounted stand) into Tascam TM-D1000 digital mixer, fed into a pair of M-Audio BX8s, with the sound picked up by a Sabine STX1100 electronic tuner using a fresh Duracell 9-volt battery.

I placed the mic stand where the speakers would be facing its null side (it's a carioid pattern, so I pointed it away from the speakers, about 8' off to the side). I placed a 30" stool by the mic stand for setting the tuner on, and turned it on. I then cabled the SM81 to the mixer, turned on the phantom power, turned the gain and channel fader 'way up, and held the handset ear speaker close to the mic. I was able to read the LEDs on the tuner while I did this, owing to the proximity of the tuner on the stool to the mic stand. I then dismantled the test equipment, and returned the mic to its case and brought the telephone handset back to the house.

Test results: not even close. The dial tone was about midway between F and F#. In other words, not a note, but a tone.

Too bad. I was hoping for a real breakthrough in tuning here. Another sunny morning spent in the pursuit of science.
 
This looks like the appropriate place to introduce a new type of bass I've invented. It's a six string. The lower four strings are tuned the same as a normal bass, but one octave higher. Then I've added two strings of higher pitch - one tuned to B, and the other to E, two octaves above the low E.

It has a really different sound, especially whan chorded. It may even have potential for use as a solo instrument.

I call it the "soprano bass". I've already applied for a patent for it, so don't go trying to rip me off. :mad:
 
crazydoc said:
I call it the "soprano bass". I've already applied for a patent for it, so don't go trying to rip me off. :mad:
Click to expand...

No point - it will never catch on. And if anybody did learn it they would want to play it too loud ;)
 
My first wife and I played occasional weddings (in one memorable case, the marriage was annulled after the groom ran off with the best man). Anyhow she sang, and we both played guitar (using an amp), and wanted bass. One time we performed "Unchained Melody" and I tuned the two lowest strings to B and F and hit the root notes with those strings and played the melody on the top ones.

And "Unchained Melody" isn't that bad for a wedding: at my stepdaughter's, in a big park in Savannah GA, a classical guitarist was hired to provide the music. He played for about half an hour before the ceremony while people were sort of milling around. I stopped and listened to him at one point: he was playing "Suicide Is Painless" from the MASH movie.
 
Dial Tone

The dial tone is a continuous combination of 350 Hz and 440 Hz.

All the tones in the modern telephone system are combinations of two tones, from a set of tones carefully picked so that no tone is a harmonic of another and no tone is the difference between two others (causing a beat).
 
That's where the "F" comes from

F (high E string, I fret) is 349.228Hz, which is reasonably close to 350Hz (I almost said, 'close enough for bass players,' but then I reconsidered) while 440Hz is our old friend, the (modern) concert A.

So what's the story? What's the resulting harmonic?
 
crazydoc said:
This looks like the appropriate place to introduce a new type of bass I've invented. It's a six string. The lower four strings are tuned the same as a normal bass, but one octave higher. Then I've added two strings of higher pitch - one tuned to B, and the other to E, two octaves above the low E.

It has a really different sound, especially whan chorded. It may even have potential for use as a solo instrument.

I call it the "soprano bass". I've already applied for a patent for it, so don't go trying to rip me off. :mad:
Click to expand...
Hmmm. I think I could play solos on something like that. But, for God's sakes, don't put little bitty, wimpy-ass strings on it. That would totally RUIN the tone.

Brad
 
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