Tubes replacement??

C

coolasvanillaic

New member
Yo,

First off, hows everybody doin these days? I live in the Philadelphia area and its getting cold around here. Im not a big fan of the cold, but what can ya do?

Alright, my question. Im running my guitar through a Peavey 5150 and Im liking the tone out of it, but I think it could be better. Now I dont know much about Tube Amps or Tubes for that matter so thats why Im here. Will changing my tubes drastically change my tone and is it a good thing. I mean I know they should be changed, but how do I know when they need to be changed? And what tubes would be good for a nice heavy distortion, something along the lines of Dream Theater.

Also, new Speakers? Im using a Crate 4x12 and they sound alright too, but Ive heard lots about some nice Mesa Cabs. But those Cabs are too expensive for me, so anything else sound close to them for a lower price??

Thanks a lot guys, and have a good day.

Matt
 
Tubes ehhhh..... this could be a lengthy post!. There are hundreds and hundreds of tubes you could try and im not talking about all the different types of tubes like EL34 KT88's and so on. I mean just 6L6 tubes. Im guessing your 5150 still has the stock Sovtek power tubes in it, and i found with my 5150II that these were very noisy when not playing. I changed mine out for a new set of Svetlana 6L6's and background hum was cut considerably. So i know from experience that these are at least a good choice to cut hum out.
As for tube colouration and its affect on your sound, i feel this is more relative when talking about different model of tubes like the old EL34 v's 6L6 debate. I dont think the actual sound is altered much by using different brand tubes although things like hum reduction from finer production and material quality could be a factor in affecting your sound, but generally i dont think your going to be floored by differences in tube brands. Other tubes that get alot of mention are Mesa Tubes and Groove Tubes. Many say that Groove tubes are among the best but they are costly. My best advice is to go to a store and try an amp with different tubes in it. Try and make sure you use the same amp, guitar and cab cos using different gear will invariably give you a different sound.
As for the cab question, the best cab i have heard so far is the Mesa Recto cab. it sounded really deep and full when i ran my 5150II through it and it had a very good bass response, though as you say they cost a packet. Try a Marshal 1960 AC cab which has the same V30 greenback speakers as the Recto. And if you want tighter bass, go for a straight cab cos the deeper overall depth of the cab gives more bass response than on slanted cabs. Or alternativley, try a bunch of cabs out like with the amp and see which speakers u like best, buy 4 of them and pop them in your crate cab :)
 
Power tubes:
You wont know how much it will affect the tone until you put a different set in. If you like it better, then that's how you know you needed 'em. Tubes sometimes just go bad and don't work, but usually they work pretty good for a fairly long time, and then fade away slowly over time. Loud playing, hotter bias settings, and being turned on from cold shorten their life. The more they have "faded" or worn out, the bigger difference you will notice. If you're getting power tube distortion, you might actually find that the new power tubes are a little louder and have more headroom, but the old ones had a gnarly break-up at a lower volume that you liked...

Preamp tubes:
Same as above, although they typically last a lot longer, you might go thru 2 or more sets of power tubes and leave the same preamps in. Also there is no bias adjustment for them, and I don't think they are as adversely affected by the loud playing thing. The phase inverter tube (preamp tube closest to the power tubes) is "worked" harder then the others, and the general rule of thumb is when you change power tubes to replace that one also.
 
McButtsky, coolasvanillaic- have either of you tried the 5150 straight cabs? i thought i heard that those cabs were tuned to the heads to get the most out of the resonance control.

i use my 5150II w/ celestion v30's in various cabinets but don't know anything about the 5150 sheffields.
 
6gun said:
McButtsky, coolasvanillaic- have either of you tried the 5150 straight cabs? i thought i heard that those cabs were tuned to the heads to get the most out of the resonance control.

i use my 5150II w/ celestion v30's in various cabinets but don't know anything about the 5150 sheffields.
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I've not tried any of the 5150 cabs, but i dont tend to beleive the whole "Designed for optimum performance" stuff. I just play through whichever gets me the best sound.
 
McButtsky said:
I just play through whichever gets me the best sound.
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me too, but i can't seem to find a 5150 cab around here to try out. would never buy without hearing first.
 
Tube quesiton

Can you run any tube through any amp? or do you have to match stuff? If i wanted to replace the tubes for my Fender Hot Rod DeVille 410, could I just order any tubes off the internet and expect them to work? I'm new to the whole tube amp thing. Also is the same true for speaker replacements? I imagine you have to match up the ohms, but I'm not sure. Please help.

Micah
 
First of all Vintage 30's and Greenbacks are not the same speakers. Vintage 30's are a recreation of old 30 watt Celestions (same cone style &voice coil size) but due to modern manufacturing techniques actually handle more like 60 watts. I have 3 cabs with'em (2 212's and a 412). I like 'em.

Greenbacks are 25 watt Celestions like the ones that came in the early Marshall & Vox amps. They break up a lot easier than the 30's. Too much for me.

Second thing: preamp tubes do wear out rapidly in amps with ultra high gain preamps (like your 5150) if you run 'em saturated. You can usually tell when they're going bad by the increased noise & microphonics. My Boogie MKIII will actually feed back on it's own with nothing plugged in when the tubes are getting worn if you crank the gain all the way up.

Can you run any tube through any amp? or do you have to match stuff? If i wanted to replace the tubes for my Fender Hot Rod DeVille 410, could I just order any tubes off the internet and expect them to work? I'm new to the whole tube amp thing. Also is the same true for speaker replacements? I imagine you have to match up the ohms, but I'm not sure. Please help.
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Unless you have an amp that is designed to use different types of tubes (Groove Tubes amps come to mind though I'm sure there are some others) you must replace them with tubes of the same type unless you have the amp modded to run the other type. There are certain exceptions to this rule (like running KT66's in a 6L6 amp, or different types of preamp tubes like 12au/ay/at7 in place of 12ax7) but it often requires at least a bias adjustment (for power tubes).

You also must match the speaker impedence to the amp with tubes. The output transformer in a tube amp serves much the same function as a transmission in a car. You don't want to drive your car at 80 in 1st gear. Make sure you have the proper load connected to the proper jacks, or the switches set correctly (Marshall) so you don't fry your amp.
 
This is what I'm looking at. Please tell me if this is compatible and won't blow up or anything like that. I'm buying a Fender Hot Rod DeVille 410 with these tube specs taken from the fender page:

POWER HANDLING N/A TUBE COMPLEMENT 3 X 12AX7, 2 X 6L6



The guy I'm buying it from says he has done this to it:

It now has F.A.T. tube is the
pre, and Sovteks in the power section.



So please tell me what these new tubes are going to do to the sound and are they the best option for this amp. Also if I decide to buy replacements, what should I get? The type of music I play is just Alternative rock ranging from clean to crunch distortion. I really appreciate any help ya'll can give me!

Micah
 
Monkubus325 said:
So please tell me what these new tubes are going to do to the sound and are they the best option for this amp. Also if I decide to buy replacements, what should I get? The type of music I play is just Alternative rock ranging from clean to crunch distortion. I really appreciate any help ya'll can give me!

Micah [/B]
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I've run both Groove Tubes, and Mesa tubes ( as well as some exotic NOS types, but that's a whole nother can-o-worms). As far as tubes that are currently manufactured go I prefer the Mesa's as they seem to have better tone, and last a bit longer.

There aren't many factories manufacturing tubes these days, and many of the tube suppliers get their stock from the same places. They just cull the bad ones, match the rest, and re-label 'em.

You can get NOS tubes (do some searching on tubes) but they can be quite pricey for good ones, and there are a lot of fakes floating around. Buyer beware.

I don't think you can go wrong with Mesa because Boogies are very demanding of tube quality due to the extreme gain available in the preamp, and the power amps have fixed bias voltage so only tubes that are within spec will work correctly.
 
alientelegraph said:
I found this tube vendor's site to be very informative,
http://www.kcanostubes.com/index.html#index
If you need more detailed info you call'em up and tell him what your looking for tonewise for what amp.
The NOS Philips tubes I got from there made a very positive difference in the tone of my amp (Pignose G60VR) compared to the stock Chinese tubes it originally came with.
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Ditto that.

________________
Post indie electronic
Meriphew
www.meriphew.com
 
You cannot just replace your output tubes and just turn the amp on. The output tubes must be biased or you could run into problems. Unless you know how to bias your amp I strongly suggest that you take your amp to an amp repairman to do this for you since it can be very dangerous if you do not know what you are doing. I myself repair, modify and build tube amps from scratch. I do all of my own work on my stuff. I could do work on other peoples amps if they send them to me.
 
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