Tube Swapping In Mics...

  • Thread starter Thread starter kidvybes
  • Start date Start date
kidvybes

kidvybes

New member
...anybody out there got any experience swapping out tubes on their mics, I'd like to hear any feedback...I've acquired a selection of vintage German and British tubes and I wanted to know the possibility of swapping out a vintage 12au7/ECC82 for a stock 12at7/ECC81...or any other suggestions...I've got 3 different MXL tube mics and I'm doing some comparisons of tube "sound"...chime in if you have any input...thanks
 
Check with Bobs Mods, he's always screwing around with that kind of stuff
 
kidvybes said:
... I wanted to know the possibility of swapping out a vintage 12au7/ECC82 for a stock 12at7/ECC81...or any other suggestions...

These are very different tubes. 12AU7 is a low gain tube and is more like 6SN7 in 9 pin envelope. It likes higher currents to sound its best. Also, it has very different impedance, so transformer matching will be questionable. Although (since it has the same pinout as a 12AT7), you will be able to hear "at least something", this tube directly substituted for 12AT7 won't work its best and in proper conditions.
In microphone, the best substitude for 12AT7 would be a GE 5 star 6072.
 
Ditto on the GE 5 Star 6072. I put one in my Nady TCM1050 and it's a significant improvement over the stock chinese dud 12AY7. Extremely quiet, very warm tonal characteristics and relatively affordable ($35.00).

Check out this site for NOS tubes:
http://www.kcanostubes.com/
 
FYI Telefunken USA uses the 6072A GE J.A.N (joint army navy) tubes in there mics. They seem to sound really good.

Tube swapping does really help especially in a tube mic that is 10 or more years old.

As for a new mic you will see some difference, but beware the tube people can hype the hell out of these exspensive old tubes that sound like crap.

The best thing is to try a few different tubes in the mic and see which ones sound best.
 
Cryo treatment anybody?...

Thanks guys for the feedback...I found a reliable source for GE 5-star black plate 6072s, but he recommended "cryo-treated" for a mic application...it's only about $10 extra...any input?...the 6072 seem to be in many vintage tube mics...
 
kidvybes said:
Thanks guys for the feedback...I found a reliable source for GE 5-star black plate 6072s, but he recommended "cryo-treated" for a mic application...it's only about $10 extra...any input?...the 6072 seem to be in many vintage tube mics...

Not sure what does it mean "cryo-treated". Can you ask him?
 
How's that Nady?...

QUOTE: originally posted by DC-XPL "Ditto on the GE 5 Star 6072. I put one in my Nady TCM1050 and it's a significant improvement over the stock chinese dud 12AY7. Extremely quiet, very warm tonal characteristics and relatively affordable ($35.00)."

...Just curious how you like the Nady...they get alot of negative rap on the QC side...does the mic have a tube socket? (easy to swap tubes)...or is it wired directly to the tube (like my MXL V77s...a real bitch to do tube upgrades...something that MXL corrected when designing the newer V69M and MXL960)...
 
kidvybes,

Marik - who's also on this thread - answered a lot of questions for me when I first got the mic. Apparently there were two versions of this model, older (with soldered-in tube, little different hardware and PCBs) and newer (with the socket and body is about 10mm longer). Both shared exactly the same schematics. I have the newer model where the tube just pulls out, so it was a simple swap.

No quality issues with mine, except for some reason Nady shipped the power supply defaulted to 220v. So when I first plugged it in, there was no power! I set the switch in the back to 110 and everything's been fine since.

I've been very pleased with the mic on vocals and acoustic guitar. It's dead quiet, has a pleasing warm coloration in the lows and low-mids and a nice, sparkly high end with just a trace of harshness. My band used it recently for a recording project and we preferred it to the Rode NT1 and a high-end Lawson for male vocals.
 
I've got the "CRYO", so I'll let you know the results...

...OK...I had to get the scoop on this, so I took a ride today to the company who's website I posted above (distributing "Cryo-Treated" audiophile tubes)...I have to say, the guy in charge (Ken Chait) seemed very well versed in tube histrionics...he was nice enough to give me a tour of his stock.

...just about every brand of vintage NOS European audio tubes (Amperex, Telefunken, Siemens, Etc...), NOS American stuff (GE, RCA, Phillips, etc) as well the Slovic and Chinese products...he offers all the better tubes in both NOS form or NOS "Cryo-Treated"...in most cases the cryo-product is only about $5. more...moreover, he only has the best of his inventory (each tube tested/evaluated individually) sent for cryogenic processing, so you know that the tube specs are excellent even prior to treatment...and he backs his products up 100%...been doing this for a while.

...gotta say I was impressed by his knowledge and confidence in his product...seems alot of vintage guitar mavens have known about this stuff for a while (as well as the "Analog Purists" who restore vintage tube audio gear).

...so I bought a GE JAN NOS 6072 CRYO and I'll be putting it one of my tube mics (probably my MXL V77S which already has a great sound, very natural and clean)...I'll post my results...in the meantime, check the company's stuff out if you're in the market for tube upgrades (link's up the page)...
 
more CRYONIC info...

Marik...here's some more info culled on the net:

The series of operations through which an electron tube must pass before it
can be called a "Cryo-Valve" is lengthy and in some ways, arduous.

First, only the best sounding NOS (new old stock) and new production tubes are considered
for cryogenic treatment. Every tube is pre-selected on a "SOFIA" computer curve
tracer and only the tubes with the most linear and evenly spaced plate curves are
selected for cryo-treatment. Also, in the case of dual-triodes such as 12AX7, 6922,
only the tubes with the closest triode section matching (typically within 5%)
and quietest noise-floor are chosen for treatment. Pentodes such as EL34, EL84, 6550
are selected on the basis of having high transconductance and high standing idle current
and are matched into pairs and quads before they are frozen.

As received, a typical electron tube exhibits several problems that directly
impact its sonic performance. Most serious are the many internal stresses in the
construction materials that accumulate during most of the stages of manufacture
and; a very hard, heavy oxide-coating on through-glass pins to which direct
connection is made. Seven and nine-pin miniature tubes are typical of those pins
which are heavily oxidized while power tubes such as KT88 and EL34 are fitted with
bases whose pins are tinned with the result that contact quality is much improved.
The degree of sonic improvement is SUBSTANTIAL.

The initial 100 hour burn-in allows the tubes' characteristics to stabilize while
providing an opportunity to "cull" any "infant mortals"

During cryogenic tempering, the tube is slowly cooled to the -117 C / -320 F
temperature of liquid nitrogen, "soaked" for many hours then slowly returned to
ambient. By means of this unique and vital process, the stresses interior to the
materials of the tube are substantially and permanently relaxed. During a
subsequent, high temperature anneal, the tube is heated to a 175 C / 350 F
temperature then slowly cooled to ambient. Although not as extensive, the
results are similiar to those achieved by the cryogenic procedure.

The "Q" of the (self) resonant (electro) mechanical systems responsible for the
output of (self) microphonic spuriae is therby drastically reduced. By this
important reduction, both the peak amplitude and the "ring down" time of these
systems is reduced with the result that the "apparent gain" of the tube is
increased - even in feedback controlled circuits - while the "dynamic noise
floor" is lowered.

Grading for noise and microphonic performance involves both listening and
intrument evaluation. Various instrumentation provides data on the noise,
microphonic level and spectral content while the overall "sound" of the spuriae
is critically evaluated. In particular, the evaluation of microphonic output
is very much an experienced-judgement call.

Dual triodes (example: 12AX7, 6SN7GT, 5751, 5687) are rated for overall noise
performance by the noise-output level of the noisier "tube" or triode section.
Thereby, it's possible for a tube given an over "STANDARD RATING" to contain an
ultra-low noise (ULN) section. ULN rated tubes however, always consist of two
ULN sections, hence the higher cost per tube.

The last few steps in the process are the standard yet essential procedures for
the evaluation of many important electrical characteristics such as GAIN, PLATE
CURRENT and TRANSCONDUCTANCE. Additional data is generated indicative of the
GAIN and DC BALANCE of each tube's sections.

...whew...and only 5 bucks more?...
 
Dear Kidvybes,

Yes, I found this passage, as well. I think it would be interesting for you, or anyone who reads it to get to the link to "The Lab" forum I posted above, and see what very knowledgable people, whose opinions I highly regard, wrote about it. Also, pay attention to David Bock response re: use in tube mics.

As many folks have stated there, there is no any scientific prove of the clamed improvement. It would be probably unnecessary if actually "there is an improvement", but where are all the tests results? How have they been done? Who did them, and their names? In which application?

Don't you find, there is something wrong here--they describe the process as a "lengthy and in some ways, arduous". The preselection with a curve tracer is a long process, as well. Then they charge only $5 more??? It does not make any sense.

Don't take me wrong. I won't be able to judge untill I hear it myself. The only way to do it right would be a tube (in fact at least a few of them) tested and recorded before treatment, then after, and then is evaluated in a double blind test. Needless to say, it should be done with the same source (i.e. may be speakers).

And the last. Yes, in some cases changing the tube may somewhat improve the sound of the mic. But any mic is an integral system, with many parts and parameters. If a mic has a poor capsule, poor electronic circuit, poor parts, poor transformer, or poor disign; I believe, it does not make sense to spend $40 on a good quality tube, as an improvement will not be justified, and in a sense is a fake one. On the other hand, if it works for you--go for it.
 
Back
Top