tube amp versus tube amp?

[Big Kenny]

Most of the time, people say the things they do because they heard someone else say it.

Seriously.

I was gonna say that....

 

[ikijapan]

The podxt and the jmp-1 are line level devices. They are preamps, not distortion boxes. If you plug them into the guitar input of your amplifier, it will sound like shit because your will be overdriving the amp too hard and the impedance mismatch will mess with the sound of it.

Both the podxt and the jmp-1 are guitar preamps, just like the preamp section of your TSL. They are designed to be plugged into power amps them the power amps into cabinets. Your TSL has the preamp and power amp built in to one box.

That's what I thought, but what about when you do plug in the overdrive pedal into an amp. How should you configure the gain setting of the clean tone? Or is it a matter of how you want it to sound? Because the clean tone on a lot of amps goes all the way to crunch, and then if you are putting a distortion pedal in front of it...and if you put the gain too low it changes the sound as well.

OK, last question about this, I SWEAR! So as I said earlier on this topic, what this really all boils down to, is I'm keeping my TSL100, but I want to get another amp that is a small combo amp, basically for the convienance of practicing elsewhere without having to drag that half stack out, but I definitely want to get something that I can record too.

I think I've used this phrase a dozen times in this thread, BUUUT, "I've heard" that smaller tube amps are actually better for recording anyways, and also, even though I record in the basement, I really have to get LOUD LOUD LOUD with that TSL100 to hit the sweet spot, I know I could probably get a power attenuator, but what would be a couple good options to look at for getting some modern metal tone, and good clean tone out of a smaller combo amp. I'm not looking for a budget amp, I'm willing to shell out some cash for it.

 

[six]

go and check out some hughes & kettner amps. some of them sound like shite, others are sweet, very sweet. even their solid-states sound cool... not for metal though.

 

[Farview]

I personally think that Marshalls, especially in years past, were terribly inconsistent.

They were inconsistent in the early 80's too. You always had to try a few of them and pick the 'good' one.

 

[Farview]

That's what I thought, but what about when you do plug in the overdrive pedal into an amp. How should you configure the gain setting of the clean tone? Or is it a matter of how you want it to sound? Because the clean tone on a lot of amps goes all the way to crunch, and then if you are putting a distortion pedal in front of it...and if you put the gain too low it changes the sound as well.

An overdrive pedal is not the same as a distortion pedal. An overdrive pedal, you use it on the crunch channel, not the clean channel. it's used to get just a little more drive.

A distortion box can be used with the clean channel, but I used to always use it with the amp distortion. I mostly had the level all the way up and the distortion all the way down.

You have to let your ears be the judge. The problem I had with the JCM800's and the earlier marshalls was the lack of gain. That was the only reason I used boxes at all. Most of the time, I just needed a volume boost for the guitar signal into the amp, not so much the added distortion from the box.

If you are getting all the distortion you need from the amp, there is no reason to use a pedal.

 

[ggunn]

the only person that can really answer that is you unfortunately, because an amp is as much a part of your personal sound as the guitar you choose is.
So if it were me, before I parted with a chunk of money I'd find a way to try some of this stuff out so you can see what fits you.

Second that. If a music store employee refuses to let you listen to an amp at the volume you'll be playing, just ask them, "Do you want to sell me an amp or what?" Of course, you shouldn't abuse the priviledge by going all Metallica on them and insisting on playing their entire discography at the threshold of pain just to prove to everyone in the store what an excellent shredder you are... ;^)

 

[ggunn]

Also, isn't distortion caused by clipping a signal past a certain point or something? I've heard that there is no way to have a tube amp "clip" like a solid state amp would if you pushed it too hard, it will just distort more and more or something like that?

Sorry for the walters like questions, I'm just trying to understand how this stuff works. I'm really not after the "tone" aspect of it at all. To me, put my guitar through a Mesa, or a Peavey, or a Randall or whatever, it really doesn't matter to me that much. I'm more looking at the technical aspects of how the amps work I think.

In the olden days, there was a good deal of difference between solid state and tube amp clipping. Nowadays, not so much, though there are still differences.

An amplifier, any amplifier, is limited by its "rails", which are the maximum positive and negative voltages (the swing) its output section can deliver. Near the centerline between the rails, most amps are linear, that is, they give the same relative increase in output for a given increase in input. Out near the rails, however is where things get different. That's where clipping occurrs, which is what happens when an amp tries to produce a waveform which is bigger than the space between the rails.

As the output voltage swing from a tube approaches closer and closer to the rails, it encounters more and more resistance, so the waveform is rounded off and starts to clip before the rails are reached. The closer it gets to the rail, the more it is clipped. This is soft clipping, and the harmonics introduced into the tone from soft clipping is what tube amp enthusiasts drool over.

Transistors do not naturally soft clip, at least not nearly to the extent that tubes do. What they do is reproduce the waveform cleanly until the rails are encountered, and then it cuts off the signal sharply, like with a pair of scissors. This produces sharp edges on the clipped waveform, and sharp edges produce high frequency harmonics, which sound "crackly" and "fizzy" and generally make your tone suck. Old style solid state amps were famous for this kind of distortion.

Newer solid state amps have employed sophisticated design strategies to try to emulate the soft clipping character of tube amps with varying degrees of success, and they are cheaper to produce than tube amps. For my money, though I'll stick with the real thing. I guess that makes me "old school", or maybe just old. ;^)