Tube Amp Myths

dragonworks said:
I think "tube watts" is a myth dreamed up by underworked salespople.


Watts are watts. But a tube amp with a certain wattage rating will be capable of producing louder, more pleasing music than a solid state amp of equivalent wattage.

Watts RMS indicates how much an AC signal can generate, regardless of the shape of the wave.

If you look at any audio amp's output rating, it will indicate X amount of watts at Y-frequency with no more than Z% distortion (probably across a certain frequency range).

Once you hit the limits of the amplifier, driving it past that point results in rapidly increasing distorion as the circuit begins to clip.

The quality of the distortion of a tube amp is much more pleasing to the ear in comparison to the quality of distortion in a transistor amp pushed to the limit. Also, in many tube circuits, the rate of distortion increase is not very steep, but gradual. In solid-state circuits, the distortion is like a cliff, you reach a point and you cross the line and the circuits distortion increases dramatically.

Tube circuits tend to have compression as the maximum power level is reached. This tends to increase apparant loudness as well.

Another difference found between tube and solid state amps is the application of negative feedback. Many solid state amps have very high open-loop gain and rely on large amounts of negative feedback to linearize the circuit globally. Once clipping is reached, the stability of the feedback circuit is pretty much gone, again resulting in harsh, unpleasant sound.

The typical tube amp uses relatively small amounts of negative feedback or perhaps none at all. The effect is similar and again contributes to a smoother transition into clipping, increasing appearant loudness.

So what you hear is an appearant loudness difference, rather than actual difference in electrical energy output. Loudness is a psychoacoustical phenomena, not a physical one. From the standpoint of physics, "watts is watts"
 
geet73 said:
While it may be ideal to allow the tubes to cool before moving the amp.. It's just not realistic when you're playing a show with 7 bands and there's only 15 minutes for breadown and setup between setups.

Will this cause a ton of damage to my amp by moving it? I can't just let it sit there.

If you've got casters on your amp, roll it around without dropping it sharply. If it's heavier than one person can move carefully, have someone help you lift it off the stage and set it onto the floor, gently. Within 10-15 minutes, it should be ready to go out through the stage door and into your truck - even in cold, snowy weather. Your guitars and tube amps should be the last into the truck, first out.

Regarding guitars - if you're moving them around during the winter in an unheated truck, DON'T OPEN THE GUITAR CASES immediately on arrival at a heated venue... let them slowly warm up in their cases for a half hour or so to avoid cracking or crazing the paint. I learned this the hard way with a '68 LP goldtop while touring in the early 70's. We were on the western leg of our tour, in Montana, in January, with -34 below zero temps. I popped open my guitar case as soon as the truck arrived and watched the nitro finish shatter before my very eyes! Looked like broken glass.
 
guhlenn said:
Lol there you have the two biggest myths. Matchless amps DON"T have a standby switch... LOL and turning the power off simply turns the power off...

Grinder is right though, when tubes are warm you shoudln't move them...

Yeah...this is an old thread, but this comment made me laugh. Especially when you look at a pic like this.
 
There actually are some Matchless models and other tube amps that do not have a standby switch. However, what the previous poster neglected to mention is that the models without a standby switch use an indirectly-heated tube rectifier rather than a directly-heated tube rectifier or solid-state rectifier. This means that the rest of the tubes in the amp do not get full B+ power right away but have to wait until the tube rectifier warms up. By the time that happens, the other tube have warmed up as well because the filament supply for the other tubes does not go through the tube rectifier. In contract, with directly-heated tube rectifiers or solid-state rectifiers, the full B+ juice would immediately hit the other tubes when the power comes on, i.e. before the other tubes have warmed up enough to accept the B+ voltage. That is why you need a standby switch in those amps to prevent damage.

In essence, indirectly-heated tube rectifiers like some Matchless and other amps use effectively gives you an automatic, self-operating standby switch. See the tweed 5F1 Champ for a well-known and simple example... "Look ma, no standby switch."
 
toddyjoe said:
There actually are some Matchless models and other tube amps that do not have a standby switch. However, what the previous poster neglected to mention is that the models without a standby switch use an indirectly-heated tube rectifier rather than a directly-heated tube rectifier or solid-state rectifier. This means that the rest of the tubes in the amp do not get full B+ power right away but have to wait until the tube rectifier warms up. By the time that happens, the other tube have warmed up as well because the filament supply for the other tubes does not go through the tube rectifier. In contract, with directly-heated tube rectifiers or solid-state rectifiers, the full B+ juice would immediately hit the other tubes when the power comes on, i.e. before the other tubes have warmed up enough to accept the B+ voltage. That is why you need a standby switch in those amps to prevent damage.

In essence, indirectly-heated tube rectifiers like some Matchless and other amps use effectively gives you an automatic, self-operating standby switch. See the tweed 5F1 Champ for a well-known and simple example... "Look ma, no standby switch."

Yeah, I saw one model that didn't have a standby switch. I also have an old Silvertone 1 x 12 combo that doesn't have one. It just struck me as humorous. :D
 
I've been playing in bands since 1966, and I can tell you we never worried about any of this shit. Turn 'em on and play. Wiping tubes off for any reason? Bullshit. Don't move 'em while hot? Bullshit. Extend tube life by letting them warm up on standby for 15 minutes? Bullshit.

People, tubes were used in EVERYTHING until the early sixties. They were and still are pretty sturdy things and capable of enduring a lot of use and some abuse.
 
SemiCrazy said:
Are any of you old enough to remember TV's from the fifties and sixties? You only got a dot on the the screen untill the tubes "warmed up".

I spent many a stoned hour staring at that dot.
 
I've lost track of what on earth we're talking about here but I wanted to say that we have a really good Hughes and Kettner class AB in the shop right now which has no standby switch. I'm not sure if it's good practice or not but I like switching it on and playing whilst the tubes warm up and the volume fades in. :)
 
amt7565 said:
Does anyone know if it's OK to leave the amp in standby mode for long periods of time?

What is a 'long period of time'?

30 minutes to an hour?

Yes.


Overnight? That is debatable.
 
AGCurry said:
I've been playing in bands since 1966, and I can tell you we never worried about any of this shit. Turn 'em on and play. Wiping tubes off for any reason? Bullshit. Don't move 'em while hot? Bullshit. Extend tube life by letting them warm up on standby for 15 minutes? Bullshit.

People, tubes were used in EVERYTHING until the early sixties. They were and still are pretty sturdy things and capable of enduring a lot of use and some abuse.


Then I am sure you have heard the phrase, "they don't make 'em like they used to...' -and they don't.

Thats why all this stuff is so important now.
 
AGCurry said:
I've been playing in bands since 1966, and I can tell you we never worried about any of this shit. Turn 'em on and play. Wiping tubes off for any reason? Bullshit. Don't move 'em while hot? Bullshit. Extend tube life by letting them warm up on standby for 15 minutes? Bullshit.

People, tubes were used in EVERYTHING until the early sixties. They were and still are pretty sturdy things and capable of enduring a lot of use and some abuse.

Yo tam bien. I have several tube amps, and I nearly always throw the power and standby switches together when the amp has both. One of them is a Super that I've had since 1968. Tube filaments may be more fragile when they are hot, but it takes a pretty big shock to break one even then.
 
"I also put it in standby for 2 minutes before turning it off to let the tubes cool a bit"


puting a tube amp on "standby" will NOT cool the tubes down. turning it off will... also, do not turn the amp on without a speaker being plugged in..
 
XXX Question

How has that amp worked out for you? I've been reading about them, and have been interested in buying one for my current gig?
How versatile is it?
 
Uladine said:
Also, I know that tube amps tend to sound good when you're driving them hard. I know that if you drive a solid state amp to the point where its clipping you can damage your speakers. It seems this would be true as well with tube amps, but a friend of mine says you can crank a tube amp all you want and it wont hurt anything.


Any clarification would be appreciated.


That is a speaker myth. Distortion does nothing to speakers. Giving them too much power does. Clipping an amp compresses the signal, and raises it's average level. Do it too much and for too long, and you will overheat the speaker.

This is pretty much impossible with a guitar, the signal is way too dynamic.

Distortion from a clipping tube amp sounds better, though.
 
easychair said:
That is a speaker myth. Distortion does nothing to speakers. Giving them too much power does. Clipping an amp compresses the signal, and raises it's average level. Do it too much and for too long, and you will overheat the speaker.

Semantics, I guess. A clipped waveform is definitely distorted, and a clipped waveform can blow speakers at what can be a surprisingly low level. I have done it myself, though it's not something I am proud of. ;^)
 
Whist on the tube subject, I have been advised that a small fan mounted in the head of my amp, Fender Twin in a head, I live in a very hot climate (over night low around 90oF for 8 months of the year) and the top of the amp gets really hot.
Is this good advice?
 
Back
Top