TS or TRS cables for my patchbay

[MessianicDreams]

so to summarize, you are using a patchbay with TS connections and processors with TRS connections and TRS cables in between.

correct me if i'm wrong, but if you're trying to plug a TRS cable with a balanced signal into a TS input, you'll get a 6dB drop as you'll be losing half your signal.

 

[punkin]

6dB is about right but worse yet, in a true balanced circuit, you'd be shorting the outputs together. You don't want to do that. If the device has a transformer output, you won't cause any damage but, if the output is a transistor output or any other active device/amp type thingy, it's very likely you'll damage it over time.

I'd suggest just going with a TRS/balanced (same thing) patch panel and TRS cables...you can't screw it up that way.

 

[SonicAlbert]

I'd suggest just going with a TRS/balanced (same thing) patch panel and TRS cables...you can't screw it up that way.

I agree with this advice. Further, you might want to consider using cables that are properly wired for the ins and outs of your gear and future TRS patchbay.

In other words, you need to check each piece of gear you will be connecting to the patchbay and find out what type of connector it uses, i.e. TS, TRS, or XLR. Then, cables need to be built that correctly interface the gear with the patchbay. So the TRS connections would be a simple TRS to TRS cable. But the unbalanced TS output of the gear would need a cable properly built TS to TRS cable. All your patching on the front of the patchbay would then be done with TRS patch cables, not TS patch cables.

 

[MCI2424]

Jeez.......................
A "balanced" signal is a two component affair in which one signal is an inverted copy of the other signal. When the "balanced" pair of signals is received, any voltage of the same value that appears on BOTH legs is cancelled out, The DIFFERECE between these two voltages are amplified. That is why "hum" and other RF noise gets rejected. DC voltages appear on both legs at the same time. Differential amplifiers will only accept a difference between the two signals. No difference in voltage means the amplifier never "sees" the offending noise (unless there is substantial amplifier DC offset, which is a whole other story)

Another name is differential.

"TRS" or "TS" are the names of the connector interface. TRS have three connections and TS have 2 connections.

So, therefore, there are cables that are wired for either two connections or three connections.

My MCI tape machine use Tuchnel connectors.

Question:
Are Tuchnel connectors balanced or unbalanced?

 

[punkin]

A person with "skills". You are correct sir (as you're quite sure). The balanced output which often times uses a TRS connector in the music hardware world is most likely a transformer coupled output and if not, could be transistor (push-pull). Shorting the later out in a TS connector could be devistating. The transformer coupling in it's self lends nicely to the isolation aspects of equipment generated noises and doubly nice because you pointed out are out of phase with each other and tend to reject line induced noises and are usually wrapped neatly in a shield of some sort...braided or a simply drain and foil.

So the question stands...are Tuchnel connectors balanced or unbalanced...I dare say it's a trick question which is likely meant to correct my previous statement of TRS is balanced...depends on how its wired and what it's connected to...the signal source first determines this then, assuming you don't corrupt the path it will remain balanced if it started that way. I suppose, one could say that a TS connector might be used as a balanced connector but you'd have to give up the shield and common ground/bond connection between the devices. Field phones and old time telephone systems come to mind.

Right you are sir...I have a tendancy to over simplfy. Hats off to you!

All rise!
Peace my friend, I wish you the best Christmas of all time. Hope the holidays bring you and your family joy and good tidings. Awww...ok...the same to everyone else too

 

[schulteboy]

correct me if i'm wrong, but if you're trying to plug a TRS cable with a balanced signal into a TS input, you'll get a 6dB drop as you'll be losing half your signal.

6dB is about right but worse yet, in a true balanced circuit, you'd be shorting the outputs together. You don't want to do that. If the device has a transformer output, you won't cause any damage but, if the output is a transistor output or any other active device/amp type thingy, it's very likely you'll damage it over time.

I'm a slow learner. Let me see if I have this right: If I plug a preamp with TRS balanced outputs into a recorder or soundcard with unbalanced TS inputs, I can expect a 6db drop in signal plus possible damage to the preamp over time (if it's transistor).

Is there also a danger of harming the (unbalanced) soundcard or tape machine?

 

[MOFO Pro]

Question:
Are Tuchnel connectors balanced or unbalanced?

Depends entirely on how much they weigh... and the distance beteen them... Trick Question

 

[MCI2424]

I'm a slow learner. Let me see if I have this right: If I plug a preamp with TRS balanced outputs into a recorder or soundcard with unbalanced TS inputs, I can expect a 6db drop in signal plus possible damage to the preamp over time (if it's transistor).

Is there also a danger of harming the (unbalanced) soundcard or tape machine?

IF you go from a balanced output to an unbalanced input you wire a balanced (TRS) to unbalanced (TS or RCA). All that is required is that the + and Gnd (1 leg of the balanced and shield) go to the tip (+) and ring (gnd) of the RCA or TS connector.
Yes, you will lose ~6db but you can gain stage it to compensate.

If you want to connect a +4 dBm professional balanced source to -10 dBV unbalanced prosumer equipment, and you don't care about balancing but you do want to adapt the level, get some resistors at Radio Shack:

SEE PIC


* - You'll need this jumper if the source has a transformer output. It may cause problems with transformerless devices.