trying to turn a rough demo into a can of whoopassity

[milesmaxwell]

alright. This is my first submission and it is a modest acoustic demo/work track. What I'm looking for here is half mixing advice/half songwriting advice from those with an ear for novel rec'ing techniques. I plan on re-tracking the whole thing but am looking for those inspired souls out there to chip in on how this song might take its final shape.

What does it need sonically to supplement the uber-didactic lyrical content? Will reverb add "intimacy?" Does it need another acoustic guitar to thicken up that part? Any suggestions on a solo portion and what type of instrument I should use?

Personally, I see this song as a neil young-y preachy vibe.

http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/?aid=1733/singles

For what it's worth, I recorded this direct in to my DSP24 value card one track at a time with a Samson R11 (i've since bought a NT1) and mixed using Sonar XL. There are a few scant effects that I haven't settled on for when I retrack this with more *precise* guitar and vocal parts.

And, if my directions make no sense at all to you, please feel free to add any comments you might have...good, bad, whatever.

thnks,
miles maxwell

 

[chrisharris]

whoopassity

Great thread title. You've definitely got the Neil Young (sans Crazy Horse) vibe going. I think two acoustics is a must, but that's maybe because I MUST have lots of instruments to distract from my voice.

It sounds like the ac. git is an electric acoustic that you plugged in. If I'm wrong, I apologize...but that's what it sounds like. If you DID record it direct, I'd suggest mic'ing it...always...I don't waver on this one.

I wanna' hear it a few more times before I try to give any song comments...

I'll be back.

-chris

 

[milesmaxwell]

thanks

hey chris,

you're kind of right. I definitely recorded my taylor 815 jumbo direct from the Fish Matrix partly because of my serious decent mic shortage. (like I said, a Samson R11 $20 mic for vocals) I will definitely try it again with the rode now (even though it's still going through the preamp on my powered mixer)

As far as doubling goes, I was half-trying to go for that spontaneous acoustic feel, flubs and all. (Neil Young, Eliot Smith, Nick Drake sans the attitude ) To get all that though, it makes precise doubling really tricky...maybe I just gotta get better at making exact playing sound realistic.

Thanks again and please tell me more when you get the time!

mm

 

[Fed]

I listened and would like to coment but don't know what to say... ... maybe latter ....

 

[theron]

milesmaxwell,

Forgive any repeat advice as, I didn't read the other comments.

You've a huge potential with this tune.

Lyrically/arrangment, I'd write a chorus and fast!! Just a recap of the inspiration for the tune will do. "Ohhh povilas, opened up my eyes. Ohhh povilas, from a town small and wise". OK OK, just an example of what I'm trying to say. Stop laughing and concider a chorus.

Recording/Mixing, Yes, you should have supporting gits panned opposite. I'd cut a git track just picking the progression (like in the first verse) throughout the whole song. I'd throw in a strumming git to reinforce the sections when the backup vox comes in (and when you write the chorus I just talked you into )

It sounds like you're trying to do too much with one git track. Take a monkey off your back and cut two git tracks minimum.

When the backup vox comes in, I'd decide which is lead and which is backup in the mix. After you decide, I'd put more verb on the backup vox. If you want intimacy, sing close to the mic and mix your level accordingly.

I'd also mic the acoustic. DI on the acoustic doesn't fit for this tune at all imho.

I'm sure you've had enough advice from me by now ,

Peace,
Theron.

 

[chrisharris]

I'm Back

alright. This is my first submission ...What does it need sonically to supplement the uber-didactic lyrical content? Will reverb add "intimacy?"

I downloaded it, burnt it, and listened at unsafe volumes. I love the delay for one line, and only one line. Cool.

Okay, it's not every day that somebody asks any question involving "uber-didactic lyrical" issues, so I figured I should give it a couple of spins.

Sonically, it needs 2 gits, but we've been over that. If you really want to stick with your vision, though, I would suggest at least making a copy of the track, panning one hard left, one hard right, and make the right one about 30-50ms ahead of the left track. You won't have to worry about re-creating flubs that give it a natural feel.

Most songwriting critics would tell you that it's not a good idea to use words like "dilapidation," and I guess they're right, but it's part of such a cool line in this song, KEEP IT. Besides, these are the same folks who would frown on the use of the lyrical jewel, "SHIT." It works for me.

I respect Theron a ton, and I'd read his post very carefully and take it to heart. I won't repeat.

Oh yeah, the recording. Man, nice job with the vocals. I'm glad thereon mentioned the upfrontness of the "background" vox. Neil Young does that a lot. In fact, I'd be willing to bet you've spun a few CSN&Y tunes in your day. There's not too much verb on the vocal..I could understand every word. Stuff like that actually does matter.

Sorry to ramble...this is worth rambling about, to me.
-chris

 

[boydrj]

One can of whoopassity coming up...

This is a great track. I really love the folk feel to it. Nice vocals and I like the big harmonies on there.

Great to just have a song that moves along nicely on a guitar with some good vocals over it. Adding another guitar will give this a fuller sound -- nod to Theron there....and may bring the tune a little more to life, but overall I think this sounds good.

Nice job on this overall!

 

[milesmaxwell]

ughh!

my mobo crapped out on me tonight. I'm writing on my roommate's computer. I feel so paralyzed!

ok, to start, Chris is right and I recognize that. I tried like hell to replace both key words, "dilapidated" and the ever popular "shit." In my meekest defense though, I used dilapidated for two reasons. First, the Lithuania I saw was and is. Total poverty in comparison to what I know and have seen and I feel like I've been around. (Lived in California, Massachusetts, England and Chicago) Second, it was a minor homage to the way Harry Chapin uses the very same word in "I Wanna Learn a Love Song." Yeah, I figured if he breaks the rules, I can too. (Sidenote, for reference to Chapin REALLY breaking the rules, he also uses the word "fusillade" most awkwardly in "Sniper.") Good call on the harmonies too. I had been passing this off as my ghetto CSN&Y harmonies ripoff.

Theron, despite what I just said about breaking the rules, it just about broke my heart to offer a song without a full-fledged singalong chorus like you suggested. It's so unlike me as a writer that people who know me wouldn't believe I said it was done...Point taken, magical chorus shall be written. What do you think about a one word chorus like NY's "Helpless"?

Anyway, I want to thank everybody for all the great suggestions and let you know that I plan on trying all the advice and getting a new and improved version up as soon as EconoPC gets me my new freakin' motherboard.

First, I'm gonna try the copy and slight delay to see how that fits.
I have tried that in the past but hadn't considered it for this tune.

I'm also gonna go read up on acoustic micing using the handy search technique so I don't ask redundant questions like, "how do I make my akoostic sound right?" I love that everyone here knows what they're doing.

Thanks again,
Miles Maxwell

 

[jamal buchet]

great lyrics....really painting a picture..needs to split that double vocal parts a bit..this song would benefit immensely from a diff guitar sound...fuller...??...im no pro-...but lets see..listening again..really all of this for the most part is nice and clear(something i struggle with myself)....thats some nice gitar playing as well....nice..nice......i would say you need to "commit"..if that is the right word to the vocals more...sorta falls off evry phrase unless that is what ya were shooting for in which case..disregard ..lol.....if this your first try at this then you are way ahead of the game

good luck with this..
jamal

 

[mkg]

I like the lyrics, I like the use of words like "dilapidation." I like the way you tell the story.
I agree that two guitar tracks are needed... but you don't need a whole lot more with a story song like this (think Freewheelin' Bob Dylan).
I also like your vocal delivery. In my opinion you shouldn't clutter this one up too much with effects or extra instrumentation, just try to get a very solid vocal and acoustic performance and let the song stand on its own.
Nice work!

Mark

 

[Fed]

ok... got to ask what in the world is "uber-didactic " and "dilapidation" mean .... ?

 

[milesmaxwell]

ok... got to ask what in the world is "uber-didactic " and "dilapidation" mean .... ?

dilapidation: a condition of decay or partial ruin

uber: Deutsch (German) word often borrowed in english to show emphasis.

didactic: {adj.} intended to convey instruction and information as well as pleasure and entertainment

definitions borrowed without permission from Merriam Webster.com

Hope that clears things up a bit... Thanks for coming back and trying again, fed! It must be a fairly tough one to decipher.

mm

 

[TripleM]

You have a real nice guitar sound going there. Nice tone on it. Noticed a clip or two on my headphones (e.g., 2:00).

I noticed some harmony vocals had some timing issues. I personally would clean those up. However the harmony part was rather non-standard (in a good way) and had a nice sound to it.

As for songwriting. The guitar part was very nice. I think a second part would probably be a nice addition, though I'm not positive.

Lyrically, I thought there were a few nice lines. I think it depends on what you want out of the song. The song was very specific to your situation, and I'm not sure how someone without ties to Lithuainia will relate. But if you're writing for pure personal satisfaction, then you can be your own judge as to how well you attained your goal.

Trip...

 

[Fed]

hey thanks for clearing it up...
I listened againg ... what I think would be good is if you keep stedy guitar picking like you started in the begining ... it's was a good idea but it seems you are strugling technicaly. it would be nice to keep the music at least roughly in steady rythm ... I am not very familiar with this style but I would say that tighter rythm would greatly improve this tune....

hm...

 

[milesmaxwell]

As for songwriting. The guitar part was very nice. I think a second part would probably be a nice addition, though I'm not positive.

Lyrically, I thought there were a few nice lines. I think it depends on what you want out of the song. The song was very specific to your situation, and I'm not sure how someone without ties to Lithuainia will relate. But if you're writing for pure personal satisfaction, then you can be your own judge as to how well you attained your goal.

Hey trip,
I'm working on that second part. Still can't record because of my *technical difficulties* but do plan on writing a new chorus with something to spice up the comp'ing.

And, without getting too deep into my theories on songwriting, I definitely write for the listener first. that may sound like a sell-out cop-out thing to say but, if you think about it, I know all I want to say in a lyric. I want to be proud of what I write but I also want it to ultimately speak to the listener. That's what makes me proud as a lyricist.

Now, as that pertains to this particular song, I'm (attempting) to draw attention to the way many Western Hem'ers take the good things in their life for granted. The story as you said is extremely miles specific but is (supposed to be) meant for direct translation to whatever opens our eyes from our everyday sleepwalking (read:complaining). In fact, that's the subject of the new chorus. starting to make sense???

And Fed,
you're right about my guitar performance. If you met me in person, I'd probably brag about what a great git. player I am and how much I know but my consistent problem is lazy guitar playing. I can get away with it usually when I do live stuff but recording gives a listener time to notice that I sped the whole thing up b/c I didn't use a click. Thanks for the humility reminder.

mm