trying to soundproof (or sound reduce rather) my shed

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eeb

New member
I have a rather large shed that i am converting into our jam space.

It's all wood about 12' x 18' with shingles on the roof and siding.

this is the plan (and pretty much all we can afford to do)


1. insulate the whole thing
2. put up asponite on the walls
3.build another frame with a 6" air gap (room within a room concept)
4.drywall.
5.carpet on the floor

We're gonna add a second door and put some rubber around the inside door

I plan on cocking and sealing everysingle crack to make it as air tight as possible.


what do you guys think? will I gain sufficient noise reduction so my neighbours won't wanna kill me?
 
put up asponite on the walls
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Forget about putting aspenite(waferboard for those who don't know)on the interior face of the exterior shell. This will create a THREE LEAF SYSTEM. Three leaf systems are worse than a two leaf system...by far. You would do a lot better by lining the stud cavity(against the interior face of the exterior shiething)with two CAULKED layers of drywall. Then some lightly placed insulation(batt type fiberglass), and then build your interior shell and sheith the interior with 2 layers of 5/8" drywall.


However, how do you propose to isolate the interior shell wall framing from the shed floor, and the new cieling from the existing roof structure. What is the existing floor made of? If you COUPLE the new walls with the existing floor, you might be wasting your time. should it be made of wood/framing. If it is wood, you could improve the mass of floor by building it up with a layer of drywall and a layer of OSB over that and then build your walls using a neoprene or other decoupling agent with fasteners isolated by neoprene washers or products designed for this purpose. Other wise you simply connecting the new walls to a floor(if its wood) that is a membrane like a drum head. Not good. Let me know if you want more info. However, you need to give us more info as well.
fitZ:)
 
Let me qualify something first. Your isolation goals might be totaly out of the question under some conditions. Tell us about the music type, instruments, distance to neighbors etc. If you are trying to isolate your band with a drummer who plays 110 db heavy metal, from a person who is sleeping 10 feet away, you are spitting against the wind.;)
fitZ
 
RICK FITZPATRICK said:
Forget about putting aspenite(waferboard for those who don't know)on the interior face of the exterior shell. This will create a THREE LEAF SYSTEM. Three leaf systems are worse than a two leaf system...by far. You would do a lot better by lining the stud cavity(against the interior face of the exterior shiething)with two CAULKED layers of drywall. Then some lightly placed insulation(batt type fiberglass), and then build your interior shell and sheith the interior with 2 layers of 5/8" drywall.


However, how do you propose to isolate the interior shell wall framing from the shed floor, and the new cieling from the existing roof structure. What is the existing floor made of? If you COUPLE the new walls with the existing floor, you might be wasting your time. should it be made of wood/framing. If it is wood, you could improve the mass of floor by building it up with a layer of drywall and a layer of OSB over that and then build your walls using a neoprene or other decoupling agent with fasteners isolated by neoprene washers or products designed for this purpose. Other wise you simply connecting the new walls to a floor(if its wood) that is a membrane like a drum head. Not good. Let me know if you want more info. However, you need to give us more info as well.
fitZ:)
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Damn, you got there first. :p
 
I did something similar to what you are planning. It works reasonably well, although the (3 brick thick, concrete ceiling and floor) bomb-shelter, my shed is built on to, works better. :D

What i did though, was build round the outside of my shed (it was too small to build inside). I built the exterior walls directly onto the concrete slab base (framed with OSB/aspenite), with the shed on the inside. The shed was clad with tongue & groove which i probably should have removed, and i drywalled directly onto the frame.

If I were to do it again, I wouldn't buy a shed. I would just build the frames myself and probably sheet with ply-board on the outside instead, and drywall inside, with no cladding.

If you make it air-tight, you will need some kind of ventilation. I just used in-line fans, although they are noisy. If you use these, mount them on the outer frame. I stupidly mounted a couple on the inner frame (too late now :o) but had to install two extra later, which i mounted on the bomb-shelter wall (you can still hear them, but there is a huge HUGE improvement).
 
the shed is about 75 feet or so away from my house.. the nearest neighbour is about the same (maybe closer to 90 feet or so) so it's not like it's super cramped. All i'm looking for is enough sound reduction that my neighbours won't be able to hear much when they're in their houses. (i don't think it's that big a deal if people outside can hear us as long as it's not super loud)

we play indie rock.. so it's not crazy metal. I have an orange rocker 30 combo and the other guitarist has something similar. So we're not SUPER loud but not like we're playing soft jazz either.


rick.. so are you saying not to insulate the studs that are there? and fill it with drywall? I don't think i understand what you're saying. We're also worried about heat as we're in northern ontario and winter is approaching.

I'm not sure what' we're doing with the floor.. right now it's just a wood floor.

as for the ceiling it's all open right now (just the peak.. forgive me i'm not a construction guy) so we were just going to insulate it and drywall it. (i don't know how to explain this.. we're going to build a new ceiling that's flat.. you know)
 
eeb said:
rick.. so are you saying not to insulate the studs that are there? and fill it with drywall? I don't think i understand what you're saying. We're also worried about heat as we're in northern ontario and winter is approaching.

I'm not sure what' we're doing with the floor.. right now it's just a wood floor.

as for the ceiling it's all open right now (just the peak.. forgive me i'm not a construction guy) so we were just going to insulate it and drywall it. (i don't know how to explain this.. we're going to build a new ceiling that's flat.. you know)
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What Rick was saying was, don't fix aspenate or drywall to the studs that are there. He suggested you fill the cavity between studs with drywall, to add mass to the outer layer.

For sound isolation, you need a mass air mass(MAM) structure. So your outer layer is one mass, if you were to fix aspenate onto the studs, that would be the second mass, with the air between(in the cavity). If you then built another frame and drywalled the inside, that'd be the third mass, with air between it and the aspenate(MAMAM). A MAMAM structure isn't good for isolation, and you can achieve better results by removing the middle mass, as strange as that seems, to make a MAM.

Isolation is achieved firstly by being air-tight, then but having lots of mass and air space. So the more mass you have on each side, and more space between these masses, the better it will be.

The airgap between masses works to minimize mechanical transmission of low frequencies. The bigger the gap, the lower the frequency needed to transmit(dependent on the source volume and mass). So if you have a MAMAM with airgaps of say 6", the highest isolation you achieve, is roughly that of a 6" MAM structure. But if you remove the middle mass, you would have (just over) a 12" MAM structure.

If you get a big enough gap you could effectively (I believe) lower the frequency below that of our hearing (20Hz). The louder the source, the higher the frequency that will transmit, and the more mass and air gap you will need. You can also help to lower the frequency by adding insulation.

If you fix drywall onto both sides of the same stud, this will greatly reduce the isolation, as the sound can easy transmit through the stud. If you have two drywalled studs completely isolated from each other, then the sound has to transmit through the air. So for the best isolation, you want to be air-tight, with the most mass, the biggest airgap, and the masses being completely isolated from each other. This is all quite hard to achieve.

So anyway, what Rick is saying is that you should add mass to the outer mass(leaf) by lining the stud cavity with drywall, then build an interior shell, isolated from the outer, and drywall it. The same thing applies to the floor, ceiling, doors, windows, etc. But this all depends on the distance between this and the people you are trying to isolate from. 90' is quite a long way, so you might get away with less shed isolation.
 
ok i get what you're saying.

but the next question is if I don't insulate and close off the first set of studs won't I lose alot of heat? the heating is just as much a concern as the isolation.
 
but the next question is if I don't insulate and close off the first set of studs won't I lose alot of heat?
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Yes, that is correct. However...you seem to have missed this...
Then some lightly placed insulation(batt type fiberglass), and then build your interior shell and sheith the interior with 2 layers of 5/8" drywall.
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The insulation goes in the airgap, from leaf to leaf.:)(plus this acts as a firestop). however, this all has to do with your intent at the ceiling. If you build a room in room wall system, the floor as well as the ceiling must be addressed as a whole system. Otherwise you build in a "weak link", which could compromise your hard work and money.

Frankly, you might consider this. Since your floor is already a drum head, unless you install a product that decouples the finish floor from the existing subfloor, such as this. (expensive stuff!:eek:
is.php


This is a "roll out" product of fiberglass with embedded Sylomer or similar special "decoupling pucks", which isolate the existing floor from a layer of mass and finish floor which is installed on top of it.

Your only alternative is adding mass to the existing floor. Which under your set of circumstances seems like the way to go. Maybe 2 layers of drywall, a layer of OSB and a finish floor...or just sand the OSB and put a finish on it such as water based Ureathane.

For the walls, I'd suggest lining the stud cavities with drywall as I suggested, and then use some decoupling product such as Resiliant Channel or Isomax products(overall cheaper than framing a room in room) with 2 layers drywall on that.

For the cieling, I'd suggest beefing up your roof framing with some cieling joists, and bracing your rafter system, then hang hat channel via wire hangers and fasten RC to the hat channel. All of this system should be BETWEEN the walls. Then fasten 2 layers of drywall to the RC. Of course, this all needs to be engineered to guarantee structural failure of the roof system doesn't occur. :eek::) This is ALWAYS the problem with sheds. Walls are nothin compared to floor and cieling problems. And this is assuming VENTILATION/Heat system,ducting, registers, plenums, and grills are addressed PRIOR to building....even musicians like to breath.:D

Anyway, as you can see, slam bam thankyou mam building, even for rehearsal rooms may be a lesson in hindsight.
fitZ
 
ok i'm definately out of my element here. (i'm used to playing music not building jam spaces)

I appriciate everyones help.. gave me lots of insight but you few who have left some sarcastic remarks can shove that shit up your ass.. seriously.
 
eeb said:
I appriciate everyones help.. gave me lots of insight but you few who have left some sarcastic remarks can shove that shit up your ass.. seriously.
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They're just having a laugh. It's not intended at you, just a play on words, which is actually pretty funny! :D
 
(i'm used to playing music not building jam spaces)
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Apparently you've never done anything construction wise. Nothing wrong with that. Your use of the word "cocking" instead of caulking was the clue. And we did try to give you some insight in spite of that fact. However, it appears you don't even want to learn what "cocking" really is, and how its done. Instead, you want to run off mad like a typical little boy after someone poked a little fun at you. You call it sarcastic. I call it paying dues, just like the music biz. Well son, welcome to the real deal. If you REALLY wanted that shed to be a tool for your music, then you'd, shut up, listen, take notes, do a search on terms you don't understand to improve your understanding of the concepts. Unfortunately, you'd rather do this...:rolleyes:


gave me lots of insight but you few who have left some sarcastic remarks can shove that shit up your ass..
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Well, take your pathetic shed and shove it up YOUR ass.
 
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