Trying to sound live

[Garry Sharp]

We are putting together a new demo for clubs and promoters to get more live gigs for our originals band (which isn't a straightforward pastime we get about one a month at the moment.)

This old song of ours called Loving On The Edge has always gone well as our opener, and I have tried to get it sounding on the demo as we do it live - it was a single taker, all playing together with just the vocals overdubbed because of leakage.

I know there are ways to improve it, I just don't know what they are and any input would be very gratefully received.

It's the first song here:

http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=2045&alid=-1

Thanks in advance to anybody who takes the time to listen.

Garry

 

[Leeking]

cool song.

As a demo, this is pretty good... shows what your band is capable of.

The performance is not very tight in some parts, but good performance overall.... the drum is kinda waek though.

 

[slkeen]

good singer, she really stands out in the mix. Is this a 3 piece band with a singer? I hear bass, 1 guitar and drums. I think the bass is muddy sounding, maybe clean it up by EQing, not sure what frequency. Its also pretty loud compared to the drums. The guitar is kind of thin sounding, needs to be fattened up, and the drums need the most work in the mix, I think they are way to low, the bass really overpowers them. Try to get a good balanced sound between the bass and drums. A lot of the dynamic of the song are lost having the drums so low. But the song is good, so just keep tweaking the knobs till you get the sound right. What was this recorded with, and what's your monitoring/mixing speakers?

 

[minofifa]

...

Ya i'm curious about what equipment you are using as well. The track, in general, sounds kindof like an old recording. It sounds like everythign is a bit muffled, like what you would expect from a recorded tape. I like the bottle blues song the best! yes yes i have had many a night with too many bottles of wine. I think the drums in general are pretty soft, in particualr the snare sounds muffled to me a bit. You mentioned something about doing one take with everybody present? Have you considered laying down each track individually and doing several takes? I think this would definately help out the quality of your demos. You could nail that guitar solo insted of having those few slip ups and you could edit your drums and bass and get everything all nice and how you want it.

 

[Garry Sharp]

Thanks for the feedback

It was recorded onto a Yammie AW16G - 4 tracks of drums, (2 O/H, kick and snare), guitar DI'd and mic'd, bass DI'd and a guide vocal. Transferred to a PC and mixed in n-Track.

You're right about the drums, problem was our drummer uses the cymbals FAR too much, which we are gonna have to sort out; they bled badly onto the SM58 on hsi snare and trying to EQ them out I lost some of the snare sound.

Yes, we could lay it down a track at a time - I suppose we'd have to for a higher quality recording, it's just such a boring way of doing it.

I'll have another go at mixing it with your comments in mind though - thanks again.

Garry

 

[kjam22]

Not a bad sound. In my opinion the drummer is the weak link.

Mix wise.... I like to hear the guitars panned more extreme to opposite sides. And I think the vocal needs a touch of reverb to make it sound like it fits in the mix. Also, I'd like to know how you are recording the guitars and bass.

I record on an AW4416 and mix everything on it. Does your unit have a mastering section? The 4416 lets you do some mastering on the stereo track after it is all mixed down. If your's does I've got some nice settings you could use.

For a LIVE sound... I've got one for you to listen to. Song is a cover of a Rolling Stones song called "Dead Flowers". I played all of the instruments.... but it sounds a lot like a live band. Song is #8 and the link is..... http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=2124&alid=-1

Best wishes!

 

[Garry Sharp]

kjam - listening to yours now. See what you mean about live - very impressive. You've got the Keef-esque guitar breaks off very well. Trying to remember who Dead Flowers was written for - I know it was on Sticky Fingers but Jagger wrote it for somebody else who released it first.

And back to us - thanks for your comments. Guitars are already panned just about all the way. Will trysome more reverb as you say. Have to take it off the acapella bits though.

You are so right about the drummer. This is an issue....

The Yammie AW16G does have a mastering section, but I can't stand the fiddly little buttons and screen, and prefer to do it on the PC. I just need to learn how to do it better

 

[spankenstein]

We record our practices. I've used Oktava MK012s or MXL 990s in an XY about 10 ft in front of us with reasonable results. No vocals but those I would probably split to a different track anyway.

Well... we did one with vocals but it was just the mics picking up the PA.

This works well as long as you have a good balanced sound in the room and spend some time with compression and EQ.

 

[kjam22]

We record our practices. I've used Oktava MK012s or MXL 990s in an XY about 10 ft in front of us with reasonable results. No vocals but those I would probably split to a different track anyway.

Well... we did one with vocals but it was just the mics picking up the PA.

This works well as long as you have a good balanced sound in the room and spend some time with compression and EQ.

If I was gonna record the whole band live...... on a 16 channel (assuming you can record 8 at once) .... I'd mic the drums in 4 spots, put a 57 in front of each guitar amp, a beta 52 in front of the bass amp, and record the singer direct. (with her standing behind all the noise) And if I need one more spot for keys... I'd mix the drums down to record 3 channel.

I've got a nice little powerplay pro headphone amp that will send an adjustable signal to everybody.

I can't imagine trying to record the vocals coming through PA loud speakers. ???

 

[minofifa]

..

yikes, i hope my comments didn't get your dummer kicked out of the band or anyting! I thought he was pretty good, kept a good beat anyways. Maybe just needs some pointers on how to play drums for recording purposes. Although i am not a drummer myself, our recording engineer used to tell us how many recording dummers have a style of playing just for recording. They hit their snares to minimize bleed and do other things as well. haha just keep doing more takes!

 

[Garry Sharp]

kjam - I think spanky was just talking about recording rehearsals for their own learning. By the way our setup was just as you describe.

minofifa - well, it wasn't just you. I also hang out at talkbass ('cos that's what I play ) and put a link up to the song there - instant feedback was "get a new drummer". Our guitarist and I had a go with a different drummer this evening - quite a revelation. I mean, I knew what rock solid meant before - I'd just never heard it close up whilst playing my bass.

 

[spankenstein]

The vocals was a fluke and I was talking about recording for reference but we were all happy with the outcome. Especially for a demo.

For a live sound I think that's probably a good representation. It's definitely worth a shot!

If I had more channels I would keep a stereo pair like this and try to balance tha natural sound with the close mics. That would add some of the presence that seems missing a little.

Back to Garry's song....

Drums need to be out there more. They are defintiely buried. The bass is good. I don't think it's muddy. It could use some more bottom but bigger drums might bring some of that out.

It does sound "old" in a good warm kind of way. If the vocals were back a little it would definitely have a "Don't Fear the Reaper" feel to it.

I do know that If you sound that good live then it's got to be a good show :-D