Trying to record distortion guitars is driving me crazy...

K

KingDiamond

New member
First, here's my setup:

Behringer Eurorack UB802 Mixer
E-MU 0404 Soundcard
Steinberg Cubase SX2
Behringer B2031A monitors
Audix i5 microphone

I'm trying to record my 1x12 Crate Palomino 30W Tube combo amp with a modified Boss Metal Zone MT-2 pedal and Jackson SL2H guitar with Seymour Duncan pickups (JB/Jazz). I mic the amp by placing the mic against the grille right at the center of the amp. I run the mic -> mixer -> 0404 -> Cubase. I recorded acoustic guitar and it sounds great. But when I try to record distortion guitar it just sounds like it has no balls. It sounds nasally and crappy. I use the old trick of recording two guitar tracks and panning them left 75% and right 75% and it helps but it still lacks that in your face tone. I've tried moving the mic around the center position seems to capture the most fidelity.

Any pointers?
 
No takers?

First of all, everyone is going to tell you to do a search.

Secondly, they'll tell you to experiment a little more.

Thirdly, you're using some pretty indecent gear. Those pedals put out WAY too much gain to be musical, crate amps are generally great *practice* amps, behringer stuff leaves more to be desired, etc. On the flip side, the I5 is a great starting place for a microphone. Try moving it around not just left/right and up/down, but on its axis as well.

Use less gain than you normally would.

How does it sound in the room? If it sounds bad to start with you need to go back to square one. If its ok, then put your head where the mic is, how does that sound?

Thats all I can think of right now. I'm off to bed.

Rory
 
Post a clip if you can.....
My guess is, some eq, and/or compression. Without a clip, it's hard to tell. Lightning mp3, or soundclick, or Nowhere Radio all let you post clips....
 
the behringer mixer u have isnt so bad for disorted guitars. I ran a sm57 through it t orecorded a Marshall valvestate and it sounded great. i jsut picked a cab speaker placed the mic at a 45 degree angle and whamo. Took a little bit of EQ from the mixer.
 
rory said:
No takers?

First of all, everyone is going to tell you to do a search.

Secondly, they'll tell you to experiment a little more.

Thirdly, you're using some pretty indecent gear. Those pedals put out WAY too much gain to be musical, crate amps are generally great *practice* amps, behringer stuff leaves more to be desired, etc. On the flip side, the I5 is a great starting place for a microphone. Try moving it around not just left/right and up/down, but on its axis as well.

Use less gain than you normally would.

How does it sound in the room? If it sounds bad to start with you need to go back to square one. If its ok, then put your head where the mic is, how does that sound?

Thats all I can think of right now. I'm off to bed.

Rory
Click to expand...

I know Crate has a reputation of being a practice amp but their tube amps are much more than just practice amps and the Palomino is a very good sounding amp. I picked it over a Mesa Boogie F30. I know what sounds good and what sounds bad, and my setup sounds great in the room.

I will post a clip later today.
 
All you can really do is experiment. Rory was pretty much right on.

Right at the center of the amp can be the worst place to put a microphone sometimes...that should be the first thing you fiddle with. You're not looking for the most fidelity, you're looking for the fattest tone.
I'm also pretty suspicious of any setup involving a Metal Zone pedal. That tone just doesn't work for a recording unless you're going for Swedish death metal. Why don't you just use the amp? If it doesn't have enough balls, I would recommend an overdrive pedal in front of it to push it harder...a Metal Zone is like an automatic tone thinner...with way too much gain.

I can just picture this....a 30 watt 1x12, a Boss Metal Zone, and an Audix i5 in the center of the speaker......that description alone makes me (and most) shreik with horror. :p
Besides, it doesn't matter if it sounds good to you in the room if the recording is what you're concerned with. (unless you are capturing it accurately) You may need to completely change your approach to tone.
 
KingDiamond said:
I know Crate has a reputation of being a practice amp but their tube amps are much more than just practice amps and the Palomino is a very good sounding amp. I picked it over a Mesa Boogie F30. I know what sounds good and what sounds bad, and my setup sounds great in the room.
Click to expand...

How something sounds in a room and how it records are two completely different things. Really good-sounding amps shouldn't be difficult to get a good recorded tone with. Mesas are popular amongst those who do a lot of recording for a reason. And unfortunately, Crates tend to be popular for those who don't do a lot of recording for a reason.
.
 
The V32 Palomino is one of the best recorfing amps I own. The first thing I see wrong is your mic placement. Putting the mic right on the voice coil is going to yield a lot of highs and very little bass. I put my i5 about 3 inches from the speaker's edge. Secondly, the amp has great tone so ditch that pedal. Lastley, use less gain than you think you need.

added:

I own 32 tube amps, Marshalls, Laneys, Carvins, Vox, Fenders, etc. The Crate Palomino V32/V16 are two of my favorite recording amps. For a good reason! They record very well :cool: People have a notion because of the solidstate Crate amps sound very harsh and shrill that all Crate amps sound the same. They don't!
 
the boss metal zone is a total hoe to record.

add some MIDS

less gain

try getting your amp off of the floor (books work good enough if you have nothing else)

like chess said, sometimes something that sounds good in the room, records like shit.
welcome to recording.
 
I agree that you have to think about your source first, but this should help a bit in the post stage.

from sound on sound:

Where EQ can help sometimes is in selectively notching out the more aggressive upper mid-range, 'presence' frequencies — start somewhere around 2kHz, cut no more than 3 to 4.5dB, with a bandwidth of only about an octave or so. This will significantly reduce the perceived level, allowing you to then turn up the signal a little to restore the same subjective loudness, thereby allowing a little more of the 'body' of the note to come through.
 
If the setup sounds good to you in the room, it shouldn't be that hard to get it down to tape. An sm57 up close should do it, move it around until you find the sweet spot and don't be shy about turning the amp up a bit, get some air moving.
 
I really haven't had that much bad 'metal zone' experience, granted, it was an older model, the 'heavy metal hm-2', so I don't know if that made a difference...but set up the right way, it has worked for me, and even FATTENED my tone rather than thinned it out.
 
gtrman_66 said:
If the setup sounds good to you in the room, it shouldn't be that hard to get it down to tape. An sm57 up close should do it, move it around until you find the sweet spot and don't be shy about turning the amp up a bit, get some air moving.
Click to expand...


Yeah but a microphone doesn't hear what your ears hear when it's right up on the speaker. Best thing to do is record and then check what you just did and the do it over and over until you find that spot on the speaker that really sounds sweet. Find that sweet spot. It took me almost a year and a half but I've got my spots nailed down and now I have to do little to nothing to make the guitars sound great in a mix.
 
The crate palomino is a good amp. Definately the best crate i've ever played. You should be able to get a distorted tone with one of them. I ended up getting a mesa f 50 instead because it had more balls. But I still like the crate. I found it didn't have quite enough distortion. It's more of a blues or hard rock amp. But that's just me ( I play black/doom metal). I'm sure others would disagree on that. Have you tried just using the amps distortion and not the metal pedal? Try differnt mic placements as well. I wouldn't put it right in the middle of the cone. Try aiming the mic at the edge instead and see how that works. Record two performances on each side. I would do a search because there have been a ton of threads on this subject. Also, read that slipperman article.
 
Try positioning the mic midway between the dust cap and speaker edge, perpendicular to the speaker cone and about an inch or two off the grill cloth. You could also try a second mic behind the cab and mixing the two, just watch out for phase problems.
 
remember your running a Metal zone which in my opinion have almost no way of ever sounding good))))) and your doing it through a 1x12 which is perhaps the only way it'll sound decent. It's also a 1x12 most folks getting that "in your face sound" run at least a 4x12. Presumming your recording some type of metal.

Also if you scooped your mids with that crappy Metal Zone you better go ahead and record about 4 seperate guitar tracks.
 
remember your running a Metal zone which in my opinion have almost no way of ever sounding good))))) and your doing it through a 1x12 which is perhaps the only way it'll sound decent. It's also a 1x12 most folks getting that "in your face sound" run at least a 4x12. Presumming your recording some type of metal.

Also if you scooped your mids with that crappy Metal Zone you better go ahead and record about 4 seperate guitar tracks.
 
killmachine said:
remember your running a Metal zone which in my opinion have almost no way of ever sounding good))))) and your doing it through a 1x12 which is perhaps the only way it'll sound decent. It's also a 1x12 most folks getting that "in your face sound" run at least a 4x12. Presumming your recording some type of metal.

Also if you scooped your mids with that crappy Metal Zone you better go ahead and record about 4 seperate guitar tracks.
Click to expand...

1x12's are used more often in recording than you might think. Every recording book I have recommends using a small amp over a 4x12 cab and head. I can get guitar tones using a 1x12 and an SM57 that sound like a wall of 4x12's it's just a matter of layering.
 
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