Trying to get the cleanest signal chain

[Manbient]

Hi everyone! I'm not entirely brand new to recording, as i have some stuff i've done from as far back as 2002 (mostly single acoustic tracks with lead over), but i really didn't have much of an idea what i was doing... I was using Cool Edit Pro, managed to get an input and hit record. Then a little haphazard EQ, panning, reverb, and that's about it!

Actually i'm not sure why i gave you that back story. It's late... haha. Anyway, I'd like to take things to the next level and i am essentially starting from scratch. I have a MOTU Ultralite interface and plan on going through that to record to my PC... but i'd like to know a few things and get a little advice from those more knowledgeable about how i should go about this. Something that is very important to me is minimizing signal loss and contamination throughout the chain... I am sure that is basically anyone who ever records, but i am a bit obsessive about it! I am unfortunately one of "those guys" who has spent a small fortune on hifi equipment, so i understand fairly well some of the hot spots of signal degradation.

Firstly, i plan on doing MOST of the stuff in the digital domain on my PC. For most of the guitars i am using a Pod X3 Pro for recording... the first real question i have about that is, once it goes "through" the Pod, it is converted to digital and then processed with the amp modeling and such, right? The X3 has analog outs (XLR and single ended), but it seems like a bad idea to me to go A to D, process, then D to A, THEN to my interface and back A to D on my pc. Too many conversions, too much loss! For those who record with a POD or something similar, how do you typically record? There are a couple digital out options, but my understanding of S/PDIF is that it's fairly poorly jittery and to be avoided. I've read a fair bit about jitter, though mostly on the opposite (ie listener, DAC) end of the spectrum. Ayre Acoustics has a new Asynchronous USB input they use on their DACS that is supposed to have astonishingly low levels of jitter (http://www.ayre.com/pdf/Ayre_USB_DAC_White_Paper.pdf), though this is a DAC so i am not sure how it could be applied to a USB in on a computer... however, Charlie Hansen of said company seems pretty sold that USB is the way to go right now for the best quality. Do you guys record with the USB out?

Next thing i am wondering about is the actual interface i use. Like i mentioned, i have a MOTU Ultralite. The only thing i can see myself really using it for (if the POD doesn't go through it... actually, should it? haha) is maybe to mic my acoustic, and i won't be using more than 2 mics at a time (unless there are good reasons to mic a single instrument like that with more than 2 mics at once!). I will probably record some singing through it as well, but not at the same time as the guitar. Does anyone know of a more appropriate interface for me to use for this? As i mentioned before, "technical" things that can be reduced like jitter (found at A-D conversion just as well) or noise floor, yet are meant for simple kinds of recording are what i am looking for. My MOTU has been kind of a bastard lately and freaking out on me (i use it as my soundcard for all my pc audio) so i kind of want to switch it up anyway.

What about mic pre's? I know next to nothing about that. How important are they? Can i get away with just using the interface and leaving it at that?

For now my recordings will be simply acoustic/electric/bass guitars and vocals. Drums will probably have to be programmed. Anyway this got much longer than i intended and i'm tired, and i am quite sure i just rambled on incoherently. Sorry guys! haha... still, help me out if you can!

 

[Manbient]

I just posted this over at line 6, but i figure i might as well ask here too. More just an extension of what i already asked, but a little more specific. Maybe some of you know the answers!


i have some questions about squeezing the most that i can out of my recordings. I own a POD X3 Pro, and i am trying to discover the best way to retain fidelity through to recording. My first question is: What ADC is used in the X3? I'm very concerned about things like recording jitter and the clock used to store this signal. So far i haven't really found much info about this. I also would like to know if it is possible to bypass the ADC in the X3 to use an external. This leads me to another question: Does the modeling in the X3 have the ability to process "truely" at 192 kHz, 24 bits? I am thinking no, and more likely is upsampling and interpolation. If this is the case, does line6 have any plans to implement modeling at this rate?

If one were to bypass the ADC of the X3 and record a signal of say an electric guitar through a high quality 192/24 ADC that corrects/minimizes recording jitter, (btw, do you have any specs on the X3 ADC? jitter times/amplitudes?) would a better approach be to then use that signal in a DAW and "Farm" the modeling tones that way, as opposed to using the X3 at all?

Lastly, if i forget about all of the above and stick with everything straight through the X3 to my PC, what is recommended for the "purest" signal recorded? It seems like a poor idea to go A to D, model, D to A, out the X3 into an audio interface, BACK A to D, then store, so i am guessing staying in the digital domain is best. Which is the recommended output? USB, S/PDIF? I know USB carries more channels of audio, but i am mostly just concerned with, considering 2 given channels (stereo), which method provides the most accurate results.

 

[ido1957]

POD X3 Live is a decent modeller but nothing can beat an amp with a mic in front of it.

Guitar => Pedal => Amp => Mic => MOTU => USB Input on Computer => DAW Software.

 

[moresound]

POD X3 Live is a decent modeller but nothing can beat an amp with a mic in front of it.

Guitar => Pedal => Amp => Mic => MOTU => USB Input on Computer => DAW Software.

^^^^^right on ido^^^^^

 

[Manbient]

whelp, for now i have tones i've made in there i like, and i won't be switching up that part of things all that soon. Are you suggesting that it would maybe be better to use it with a poweramp and a cabinet, then mic it? I considered doing that, but i have doubts it would help "smooth out" the digital-ness of it. After doing a bunch of reading, i've become really interested in the Benchmark ADC1 USB. Very simple, and caters to exactly what i would like... but it still doesn't solve my problem of getting the most out of the X3. Doh.

 

[MISTERQCUE]

....... but nothing can beat an amp with a mic in front of it.

Guitar => Pedal => Amp => Mic => MOTU => USB Input on Computer => DAW Software.

EXACTLY what he said!

That's the bottom line..........

 

[Supercreep]

Hi everyone! I'm not entirely brand new to recording, as i have some stuff i've done from as far back as 2002 (mostly single acoustic tracks with lead over), but i really didn't have much of an idea what i was doing... I was using Cool Edit Pro, managed to get an input and hit record. Then a little haphazard EQ, panning, reverb, and that's about it!

Actually i'm not sure why i gave you that back story. It's late... haha. Anyway, I'd like to take things to the next level and i am essentially starting from scratch. I have a MOTU Ultralite interface and plan on going through that to record to my PC... but i'd like to know a few things and get a little advice from those more knowledgeable about how i should go about this. Something that is very important to me is minimizing signal loss and contamination throughout the chain... I am sure that is basically anyone who ever records, but i am a bit obsessive about it! I am unfortunately one of "those guys" who has spent a small fortune on hifi equipment, so i understand fairly well some of the hot spots of signal degradation.

Firstly, i plan on doing MOST of the stuff in the digital domain on my PC. For most of the guitars i am using a Pod X3 Pro for recording... the first real question i have about that is, once it goes "through" the Pod, it is converted to digital and then processed with the amp modeling and such, right? The X3 has analog outs (XLR and single ended), but it seems like a bad idea to me to go A to D, process, then D to A, THEN to my interface and back A to D on my pc. Too many conversions, too much loss! For those who record with a POD or something similar, how do you typically record? There are a couple digital out options, but my understanding of S/PDIF is that it's fairly poorly jittery and to be avoided. I've read a fair bit about jitter, though mostly on the opposite (ie listener, DAC) end of the spectrum. Ayre Acoustics has a new Asynchronous USB input they use on their DACS that is supposed to have astonishingly low levels of jitter (http://www.ayre.com/pdf/Ayre_USB_DAC_White_Paper.pdf), though this is a DAC so i am not sure how it could be applied to a USB in on a computer... however, Charlie Hansen of said company seems pretty sold that USB is the way to go right now for the best quality. Do you guys record with the USB out?

Next thing i am wondering about is the actual interface i use. Like i mentioned, i have a MOTU Ultralite. The only thing i can see myself really using it for (if the POD doesn't go through it... actually, should it? haha) is maybe to mic my acoustic, and i won't be using more than 2 mics at a time (unless there are good reasons to mic a single instrument like that with more than 2 mics at once!). I will probably record some singing through it as well, but not at the same time as the guitar. Does anyone know of a more appropriate interface for me to use for this? As i mentioned before, "technical" things that can be reduced like jitter (found at A-D conversion just as well) or noise floor, yet are meant for simple kinds of recording are what i am looking for. My MOTU has been kind of a bastard lately and freaking out on me (i use it as my soundcard for all my pc audio) so i kind of want to switch it up anyway.

What about mic pre's? I know next to nothing about that. How important are they? Can i get away with just using the interface and leaving it at that?

For now my recordings will be simply acoustic/electric/bass guitars and vocals. Drums will probably have to be programmed. Anyway this got much longer than i intended and i'm tired, and i am quite sure i just rambled on incoherently. Sorry guys! haha... still, help me out if you can!

YMMV...

Keeping everything in the digital domain doesn't sound right.

Every little bit helps, though. You know how it is, you can spend a fortune on a signal chain if you want to.

I use a MOTU 896HD that was modded by Black Lion. If you're looking for an upgrade without getting into the really expensive kit, check out RME. It's where I'll be headed when this thing dies.

Pres are important, but less so once you get past the really cheap stuff, IMO.

Mics are more important yet, and instruments more important still.

Anyway, maybe a nice low-watt tube head and cab is what you're looking for. Having the POD is nice, and you'll still probably use it - but I bet you will like the amp better.