Trigger my drums?

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Peetr3

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Ok so lets face it, trying to record drums in my small ass studio at home is not the easiest thing to do in the world. Getting a professional drum sound is probably not going to happen in this room.

So I've been told triggering drums is the way to go for this situation. Does anyone have any experience with this? Can you explain the process how it works and if its worth it? (is it an expensive thing to do?)
 
I play a Hart Dynamics kit with a Roland TD-8 (overkill for triggering samples, a TD-6 a better choice) and trigger Drumkit From Hell C&V samples. These are the best sounding samples (IMO) I've used todate. However, I would not call this an inexpensive route but it sounds about as "real" as it gets.

If you have an accoustic kit, you can get a set of triggers pretty cheap but you will still need somthing to plug them into. I recommend a Roland TD-6 because it as a lot on inputs and is fairly inexpensive on e-bay; however, there are other alternitives. You do not really care about the quality of the drum brain sounds, just that the brain has enough inputs and a MIDI out. You will send/record the MIDI out and use the MIDI to trigger your samples. There are a lot of options for sampled drums; BFD, DFHs, DFH C&V. You should be able to do a searh and find out just about anything.

Last but definately NOT least; you will need a computer. How powerfull will depend on what sample pakage you are wroking with and weather you want to trigger the samples in "real-time" while playing live.
 
Pull The Trigger!!!

Nothing wrong with triggering a drum kit, a cheaper approach to achieving a badass drum sound then having to have a few grand invested in mics. i use a Alesis DM5 Drum modual and ddrum triggers the only thing i trigger at the moment is the kik drum, becouse i have a few decent mics for the snare and toms. Alot of people are doing this and have been for awile, even though there are alot of people out there with the misconception that triggering applies more notes than are actualy being played (dumb ass's) but thats not the case. Anyway me and my drummer both love triggering!!! if it sounds good it is good Here are a couple cuts i recorded using a trigger on the kik
www.myspace.com/exesion
 
musickey said:
there are alot of people out there with the misconception that triggering applies more notes than are actualy being played (dumb ass's) but thats not the case. [/URL]


That's from them reading about "double-trigger" and misunderstanding the idea.... the idiots thought it meant that you could set it up so that you'd get two notes for every strike - they didn't understand that it is something you don't want to happen, because you can't control it.... It's like dropping a stick in the air and it coming down bouncing on stuff out of time with the beat - it would be fine if the stick slipped out of your hand, hit the snare for a sol strike at the appropriate moment - them you were able to grab it again - but you can't expect the stick to fly back up , and come down only to smak the snare just as hard, at the exact moment the next snare strike is supposed to take place.
:p


Tim
 
check for piezo buzzer at radioshack (273 073 or something like things, they're round and the plastic housing is black), tape it to the snare, use it on a line in of your sound card, download drumagog demo, use it with cubase as a vst, use the snare sample provided with it. then you will know exactly what triggering is and how precise it is for 2$. after a month you will probably build yourself an e-drum like I did and by drumkit from hell to go with it.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=147108

listen to the song unconditionnal, this guy used DFHS on drums, this will get you about to how triggered drum can sound

hope this help
 
The drums sound good on your demo's, but I won't really be playing metal at all...would these be good for pop rock songs?

Also the triggering is really confusing to me. If anyone could type out exactly what a Roland TD-6 is and drumagog explain how I physically set that up and what not.

Also, can I buy this things at Sam Ash or Guitar Center?
 
a trigger is pretty simple. when you it the head of your drum, it sens an electric signal, a peak, that is as high as you hit. Drumagog use this peak to select a drum sample, depending on how high the peak goes, so a harder hit will trigger a louder and harder sample.

a roland td-6 is a drum module. it use the same function as drumagog, but has internal sounds sample and has the capacity of converting analog trigger it into digital, a midi note. if you hit the bass drum, it will trigger a C1 midi note, like if you where playing on a keyboard with the drum fonction activated. all the midi notes can be sent out in one midi cable, you can then plug in your computer so you can edit you drum via a virtual "keyboard", such as cubase.

Drumkit from hell simply takes the midi notes and triggers it to the sound of the note, again with the velocity of the hit.

drumkit from hell is basicaly 40gig of drum samples. when you do a hard snare hit, it will trigger a hard snare, depending on the snare sound you choose. you can choose if the snare/kick/hat whatever you want bleeds through the overheads and tom mics or no, giving all the posibilities you can have.

try the radioshack piezo if you have cubase and you will understand all in 2 seconds. there is drumkit from hell superior vintage if you feel more like bluesy of jazzy.

hope its clear.
 
Question

Does trigerring correct inaccuracies in timing. Lets say the snare hit is 1/100th of a second off of the peak. Is there auto correction like on some key board drum loops that you can create? Or is this just a way to trigger a better drum sample from a database into your recording software in place of actually micing the drum hit.
 
undrgrnd studio said:
Does trigerring correct inaccuracies in timing. Lets say the snare hit is 1/100th of a second off of the peak. Is there auto correction like on some key board drum loops that you can create? Or is this just a way to trigger a better drum sample from a database into your recording software in place of actually micing the drum hit.

If I understand right, you mean like if you drummer hit the snare a bit too late. then yes. since everything becomes midi, you just have to click and you have added/moved a sample. If you recorded the trigger peak, then you just have to cut the peak and place it where it should be.

rather than that I can tell you that if you record the midi signal, with a good vst those days there is no latency, or like 1ms, while the ear can't hear a 10ms difference.

This is the magic aspect with triggers, you can edit and edit and edit since the snare hit insn't in 10 mics but one.
 
by the way, you can convert your drum into a edrum for like 1$ per piece. all you have to do is take the metal circle of an old head, and sew a fiberglass screen to it. the you screw a metal plate in the snare/tom/whatever with a piezo on it and a piece of foam.

check out this video
http://users.pandora.be/philippe.ceuppens3/DRUMS.MPG
 
wannabecomedeat said:
. a roland td-6 is a drum module. it use the same function as drumagog, but has internal sounds sample and has the capacity of converting analog trigger it into digital, a midi note. if you hit the bass drum, it will trigger a C1 midi note, like if you where playing on a keyboard with the drum fonction activated. all the midi notes can be sent out in one midi cable, you can then plug in your computer so you can edit you drum via a virtual "keyboard", such as cubase.

I am recording with protools, should I get cubase? Does cubase work with protools? Also if I were to get the Roland td-6 would the quality of my drum microphone's matter? Or do I just need a mic for each drum so that I can trigger them?
 
undrgrnd studio said:
Does trigerring correct inaccuracies in timing. Lets say the snare hit is 1/100th of a second off of the peak. Is there auto correction like on some key board drum loops that you can create? Or is this just a way to trigger a better drum sample from a database into your recording software in place of actually micing the drum hit.

If you have your drummer play to a click track, and you quantize it in MIDI - yes, it will correct timing - but you actually have to turn the Quantizing on, and set it up.

Say you set it up for 32nd. notes You have two 32nd. Notes, and a 64th note cenetered between the two. anything between Note A (32nd. note) and Note B (64the note) will be shifted to happen at note A's time slot....anything between B and C (the second 32nd. Note) will be moved to Note C.

It shifts the played note/strike to whicherver note it is closest to of the desired value.

So if your timing really sucks - you could set it for 8th notes, and it would correct your playing to be a basic "8 notes per measure" pattern.


Tim
 
Peetr3 said:
I am recording with protools, should I get cubase? Does cubase work with protools? Also if I were to get the Roland td-6 would the quality of my drum microphone's matter? Or do I just need a mic for each drum so that I can trigger them?


Drumagog can work as a vst, dx or rta so it will work with protools. Sorry for the mic confusion, you will need no mics for the drum, except overheads. all you will need is a trigger for the snare, a trigger for the kick, a trigger for each toms.
 
Peetr3 said:
Ok so lets face it, trying to record drums in my small ass studio at home is not the easiest thing to do in the world. Getting a professional drum sound is probably not going to happen in this room.

So I've been told triggering drums is the way to go for this situation. Does anyone have any experience with this? Can you explain the process how it works and if its worth it? (is it an expensive thing to do?)

Totally worth it in my opinion! Ive done it myself and if you shop wisely you can pull it off for far less than you might think. Im not a drummer or pro recorder but do think I have a good ear and feel the results have been far better than anything I could have ever gotten out of my meager mic collection. Not to mention, an electric conversion is a blast to play and its possibilities are endless!

TRIGGERS: You can get easily pick up a 5 piece set of Red Shot triggers at Musicians Friend for only $99 that will work great for instantly converting any acoustic kit: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=home/search/detail/base_pid/442393/

Or if you want to save even more money you can build your own triggers much cheaper but it will require a little time, effort and product knowlage and probably need to become a permanent part of your kit. Heres a great site for info on doing all that: http://edrumming.com/

MODULE: As for the modue, I second any Roland module as having the better sounds if your not running strictly MIDI. Many others arent bad though.

ELECTRIC CYMBALS: Might as well check out those too because you may find you dont want to have to fight to blend the toms hits that your overheads pick up with your triggered signals. (I'd at least consider still close micking the hi-hat though because its the trickiest to trigger properly). Check out Ebay for cheap used rubber pads because people are constanly upgrading to better mesh kits or if your concerned with a more realistic appearance Hart Dynamics makes some very real looking E cymbals but theyre not so cheap: http://www.hartdynamics.com/ A cheaper and nice looking alternative might be something made by Kit Toys: http://kit-toys.tripod.com/ or its entirely possible to build or even buy triggers to convert real cymbals but you'll have to modify each cymbal with at least two drill holes to do it. (info also at edrumming.com)

LIVE USE: Keep in mind triggers and a module can also enhance your sound enormously on stage. The trick is just tuning each tom to sound exactly like its corrisponding trigger sound (or vice-versa) then finding the ideal balance between the two at the console. Theres an outstanding Pink Floyd cover band in my area that does this and thier drum kit sounds absolutely thunderous live. Its very impressive!

Good luck
 
Last edited:
NRS, (and everyone else)

Thank you so much for the help, but I have one more quick question.

Once I put the physical triggers on the drums, I plug them into the Roland TD-6 with 1/4 inch cables and then that goes into my protools system via midi out and in?

Am I missing a step here as far as physically connecting my drums to the DAW? If anyone could explain this a little bit further in detail that would be aweomse. I'm just a 19 year old guitarist trying to start recording my band, so this stuff is fairly new to me.

Also once the connection is set the TD-6 records not the sounds of my drums but one of the virtual sounds I choose on the TD-6 onto my protools?
 
Peetr3 said:
NRS, (and everyone else)

Thank you so much for the help, but I have one more quick question.

Once I put the physical triggers on the drums, I plug them into the Roland TD-6 with 1/4 inch cables and then that goes into my protools system via midi out and in?

Not nessisarily. If your happy with the sounds and volume levels of each trigger on your module to begin with (and you can keep tweeking it untill you are). You'll probably want to just use the line out to start with. Running MIDI gets more complex and is only nessisary if you plan to use software generated sounds beyond what your module offers or if you need to keep track of MIDI clock sync info.

Peetr3 said:
Am I missing a step here as far as physically connecting my drums to the DAW? If anyone could explain this a little bit further in detail that would be aweomse. I'm just a 19 year old guitarist trying to start recording my band, so this stuff is fairly new to me.

If using just the stereo line output of your module, it will be no different than connecting any keyboard or other instrument to your recorder via 1/4" or RCA connectors.

Peetr3 said:
Also once the connection is set the TD-6 records not the sounds of my drums but one of the virtual sounds I choose on the TD-6 onto my protools?

Correct!
 
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