Tracking room floors

  • Thread starter Thread starter Michael Jones
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For what it's worth, the room I am using in my basement for my tracking room is carpeted. It creates a huge amount of static electricity which in turn causes everything to be come a giant dust magnet, not mention all the other disadvantages already posted. I am going to explore a 'hardwood island' which would leave an 18" to 24" boarder of carpet along walls. You can get hardwood flooring (seconds) at the big box home improvement stores, at reduced prices and with a little stain, make a nice big mess! I have worked with this material before and it is really easy to put together. The best part is the accoustics of the room should clean up and if you do it right, it even looks good :D

Anyway, good luck with your floor, and don't waste too much time with formulas and other stuff. Life is too short!
MitchMusciman
 
Mitchmusicman - you get static when you use synthetic (Nylon) carpet. If you use good old aussie pure new wool carpet you don't get static electricity.

cheers
john
 
Ok...my dad does hardwood and tile for a living. I am going to tell you that if you can track and record things, you can most certainly lay a hardwoof floor. I don't know if you are doing the work your self, but it is really not hard.

I am actually going to see him today and I'll try and find you some hardwood floor that is cheaper. Have you though about tile? I don't know if tile is acoustically desirable, but I been in houses that had it that sounded great.

The thing about tile and hardwood is the durability factor. It will last for a VERY long time. If it gets scratched and starts looking bad, you can normally get it refinished for a small fee. Small compared to getting carpet over it, or getting new wood.

I would seriously consider hardwood floors. I mean, are drum mic pres really more important than the floor? Just get 3 RNP's :)

Beezoboy
 
Yeah, OK. I'm convinced.
In my cost estimate, I had $1800 budgeted for flooring (installed).
Hardwoods are going to push that up to $3000 for materials alone, but I have a 15% contingency on the total cost. So the extra $1200 can come out of there I guess.

I've done A LOT of tiling before, so I'm comfortable with doing the hardwoods myself.
-Beezoboy, ask your dad if there's a "rule of thumb" for which way the "grain" of the wood should run with regards to the length and width of the room.
Seems like if it runs one way, it looks like a bowling alley, if it runs the other way, it just looks bad!
I think the grain goes with the long dimension of the room, but I'm not sure.
 
Mr Jones Ive seen snap laminate flooring for as low as $1.49 a sq/ft. It can over the top of a decent subfloor. My vocal booth with probably have this when Im ready. Im still throwing around ideas for the control room. Ive seen prices at home depot for 4 to 5 bucks a sq/ft too. Too many colors, Im thinking about a purple stain like my bass traps..

SoMm
 
Seems like if it runs one way, it looks like a bowling alley, if it runs the other way, it just looks bad!
Hi Michael, why not run it diaginal(45 degree) Creates interest. Maybe with a 12"border parallel with the walls:)
fitz

PS, I'm not familiar with laminate flooring, but what I've seen is exactly that. Not wood.
Laminate, thats printed to look like wood. Looked like what it is. Maybe there are some that is just a veneer, which would look ok, but I'm don't think it would have the same absorbsion as solid. Probably more reflection. But I'm no expert.
 
Nope its real wood. The stuff Im looking at is basically 1/4" inch T&G because its cosmetic and not the 1/2" to 3/4" T&G used as cosmetic reinforcement to T&G subfloors. It was originally designed to beautify basement or any concrete flooring. Its not a linolium product or that chessy 1970 wood paneling. As far as laminate or veneer, its used in guitars to change the sonic characteristics of the instrument, any impact to your floors sonically would come from the protective clear coat anyhow. The impact is neglible.

SoMm


The little details can kill ya...Doh!
 
Pergo brand floorings are not real wood!
I just had some installed in the first floor of my house last year.
It looks like wood, but the top part is more like formica.
Others, from what I have seen, have a very thin veneer on top of what looks like pressed MDF.
 
Have you considered cork?? It's easy to install and wears well over time. It is also nice to walk on and things don't always break when you drop stuff on it. :)

cheers
john
 
www.livingreen.com is a good supplier for rubber floors, ask for Ellen Strickland and tell them you're a friend of mine. Good prices and they can ship anywhere.

The main manufacturer is Dodge Regupol, their website is http://www.regupol.com
The stuff comes in rolls, so if someone quoted you for a "box" you must have been looking at the wrong stuff.

Please note that they also make the best iso material for under wooden floors and even concrete
 
Thanks guy's. I appreciate all the helpful information.
If everything goes per my construction schedual (yeah right!)
then I'm at least 12 weeks out from doing floors. Not too early to continue planning, but a bit too early to buy and store flooring. I've booked marked the links though.

Everything is on schedual though. Plumbers finished up last night, and my first inspection is set for today. There's a real good chance that the concrete will be poured before Christmas!
 
If this is an inner floor you are talking about, consider doing it the way everyone does it in Northern Europe, which gives superb iso and is cheap as well:

3/4 or 1" thick sheets of polystyrene (4 x 8 is normal sheet size)
start with cutting strips and putting those upright against all the walls, then lay the poly on the floor.
Cover the entire floor with a concrete liner (water barrier), then poor in the new floor.
With a sharp knife cut the poly level with the floor around the edges.
Now you have a floor insulated against heat / cold, and severely limited in its ability to transmitting any vibrations.
 
Hello Michael, your not floating any floors are you?
fitz:)
 
RICK FITZPATRICK said:
Hello Michael, your not floating any floors are you?
fitz:)
No, I'm not doing floating floors. Way too cost prohibitive. Besides, I doubt any contractors around here have the expertice to do one.
The majority of the slab "floats' on about 3 feet of select fill, and footings around here only need to be 6"-8" deep, (because there's no frost line), and to go even that deep you need a jack hammer!
Any transmissions thru the slab I would think are going to be negligable.

Now I am planning on doing a sort of floated floor in the drum room. More like a "stuffed stage" on perlins and rubber though.
Saw some pic's and a detail around here somewhere....

Cork must be cheap in Oz, John. Around here it's upwards of $6 per sq. ft.
 
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Hello Michael, thats what I thought. Just was wondering, as theres a lot that I can't tell from just the plan. So your ground is hard too? Where I live, there is a layer of hard pan for about 10 mile radius from my house. 6" down, and your right about jackhammers. I tried to dig some post holes with a 2 man auger. Ha! We leaned on it hard, and all it would do is scrape:eek: Took forever for 18 holes. Hey Michael, do you mind if I ask a couple of more questions in this thread? Just trying to see what other people are doing with some of the construction details.
fitz:D
PS- did anyone mention wood Parquet tiles? They are a snap and cheaper than solid, although they are solid 1/2". They look great, and you can get them unfinished. I beleive they come in maple and oak, although other species may be available. You would have to lay down an underlayment though. But thats probably good too!
 
Rick - Ask away bud! I want to learn too!

I re-thought about Sojoko's post on how to lay a floating floor.
It doesn't seem as difficult as I thought. But I had a couple of questions about that:

If you prepare the floor in the way he desribes, and lay the poly styrene strips against the wall, then lay a vapor barrier, followed by the polystyrene on the floor, and on top of that you pour the concrete. The polystyrene is 3/4" of an inch thick, then the concrete would have to be at least an inch thick on top of that. Right?
So on the side walls, where you placed the strips of polystyrene (basically to make a form), the base plate of the wall would have to be doubled up? One base plat on top of the other?
OR Do you just block in between the studs?

Is the concrete a regular aggregate type, or is it more like a mortar mix?
Is there a steel mat in that 1" of concrete? Is 1" enough?

What keeps the sheets of polystyrene from "floating" up in the concrete mix?

Against the wall, you trim down the polystyrene you used to make a form, and now you have a 3/4" strip of poly against your walls; you definately couldn't lay carpet tack strips there.

I'm interested, because this may actually be do-able for me.
 
Hello Michael, say, I hate to answer for him cause HE may have already done that, but there are some observations I've made. First, to my way of thinking, 1" sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. I poured a 1" veneer on my cracked patio once. ARRGGGRRRRRRR!! Ha! Lasted a month befor it started cracking too!. There is not enough concrete around the aggregate to give any strength. There IS no strength there, especially with the "poly" below. Second, the only room that has interior room in a room walls is your control room. And every "floating floor" I've actually seen, is really part of a "floating room". (ie, the walls are on the flooating floor)
Imagine, IF your walls of the control room are fastened to the same slab as the tracking room, right there you have negated any gain you've made with a floating floor by structural transmission through the tracking room floor to the walls of the control room. UNLESS you float the walls on rubber too! But that is the same thing as a floating ROOM! And IF your going that far, you might as well pour a 4" concrete floating
floor. But this also would require special spring isolaters mounted in the floating floor formwork, which is really a pain in the ass and EXPENSIVE. However, I HAVE built a floating floor from wood on neoprene, just never finished the rest of the room. I don't think you want to go to this extent, as it looks like your building is isolated from adjacent structures and you are not floating the tracking room anyway.
Now maybe he is talking about something else. I don't get it. Unless he is saying to do that in the tracking room:confused: Still, 1":eek: I think that needs further explaination.
I am certainly no expert at this but I still have common sense, I think:rolleyes: Now, I have seen a couple of other ways to do this, but your so close to pouring, and the forms are already in place. But I'll add this. SINCE, your exterior wall, IS the wall of the tracking room, and your perimeter footing compleatly surrounds your control room, you COULD actually build a form for a footing/slab that is physically seperated from the building slab, for the control room. In other words, the control room would actually become a seperate building from the exterior shell. Of course, this would require rebuilding the forms adjacent to the control room so there is no building slab in the control room area. Then pour the exterior shell slab and footing first, let it cure, then remove the forms, and reform for the control room slab and footings. There would be a gap in between adjacent exterior footing and interior(control room)
footings but personally, I would just lay a strip of "poly" as a 1"filler between the two footings/slabs BEFORE I poured the CONTROL ROOM slab/footing(with cable chases). Of course, the control room has angled walls, which makes for part of the exterior shell footing actually becoming a slab to the point it meets the control room footing. I would also, frame for a footing at the tracking room wall that seperates it from the CR. Same with the vocal booth and SEE ATTACHED DRAWING. This way your whole control room is isolated from the rest of the structure. But alas, this requires more time and money. Its just the way I would do it. I see no need to isolate the tracking room from the exterior shell, as you have brick exterior walls and staggered stud walls on the inside of that too! This would be gross overkill, and lets face it. That would be the way they do it to isolate from a TRAIN yard next to the studio and you DON"T need it!! Or do you?:D
Now this brings up one more thing. You showed the roof truss's your using, and I assume that they are perpendicular to the length of the room, is that correct? Are you building a seperate interior ceiling over the control room structuraly supported by the control room walls?(I assume you are). If so, you have 5/6ths of a floating room right there! Forming for a seperate control room floor would complete it. AGAIN, I am no expert, but I have seen pictures of doing it this way. Saves pouring another slab on top of the building slab. I really don't know if they consider this a "floating floor" or not, but it is structurally disconnected from the main slab. However, you are the only one who knows if you want, or need this much iso. Hell, if your recording acoustic instruments only, what the shit! Go with what you are doing! Then again, maybe you are using RC on the ceilings. Thats what I mean about not seeing all your construction details. Only plan.
One other way I see. Build a control room wood floating floor, with the walls built right on top of it. My floor was built in sections. So I could attach 1/2" ply to the bottom face before I laid each section in place.(5' x 12' as I had that size mdf available to me for the floor panels) I simply contact cemented 3/4" x 2"w x 4"L (4" x 4" at the wall perimeter) neoprene strips @12" o.c. to the 1/2" ply bottom at the complete section perimeter and in line with the joists(1 1/2" x 3 1/2" kiln dried poplar is what I used.) Once each section was in place, I bolted them togeather. Of course, there were cable chases framed in also between two sections. Once the whole floor was in place, I laid a
vapor barrior in the bottom. I then FILLED THE VOIDS between joists with KILN DRIED SAND. Then another vapor barrier over the whole thing. Then I screwed the 3/4" MDF top panels in place. Perfect subfloor for 3/4" x 6" T&G oak finish flooring(I had thes custom milled at work). There were removable MDF cable chase panels also(thats the
reason for 6" wide oak so the seams at the cable chases matched the flooring. Worked great! One other thing. I use square head recess screws on EVERYTHING. They really work fantastic. I buy them in bulk, different lengths. Even on wall studs to plates. Try em, you'll like em! They don't strip like phillips!:mad: Well shit Michael, I've used up my whole morning writing this and I hope it helps. Sorry for the ebosity. Ah, what was it I was going to ask? Oh well, another reply later today when I remember. DUH!! Later.:D
fitz
 
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