Tracking a Singing Drummer???

[Nate74]

I'm working with a local blues band full of... well... seasoned players, including a singing drummer. I want to record them as "live" as possible, while still being able to have some flexibility when mixing. My thought is to have all the players in the same room but have their amps (harp and guitar) isolated off in other rooms and than take the bass direct. I have the ability to give them 3 different headphone mixes so hopefully they can keep their "vibe" with only listening through phones.

They agree they'd like to do scratch vocals while tracking and then come back to do "real" vocals later, but keep all the instrumental performances.

This will work fine when the guitarist or harp player are singing, since I can have them do their parts into a 57 with a homemade 18"x18" baffle in front of it to keep the vocals from finding their way into the drum mics. I've used this setup several times in the past and there's virtually no vocals on the drum mics, even with the singer only 8-10' away from the kit.

The isssue with this band is that the drummer also sings. I'd asked if they could track with a different guy singing the scratch vocals (other than the drummer) but they shot that down.

Is there any way to get usable drum tracks if the drummer is singing scratch vocals while playing?

I'd thought about using a 58 or a SM7 and trying to use the vocal tracks he lays down while playing, but I'm worried that there would be so much bleed onto the vocal track from the kit, it would be impossible to mix AND it would sound totally different than the tunes they're doing where other guys sing.

Any thoughts from folks who have experience with singing drummers who insist on singing?

I'm open to any and all thoughts on this Thanks in advance!

 

[JimmyS1969]

Maybe try a headset mic?

 

[gecko zzed]

Just try it with the drummer doing the scratch vocal. With luck there won't be too much spill, and if there is spill, the good vocal may be enough to drown it.

 

[moresound]

Ouch singing drummers!

Try a Beta 57a .... again as with the regular 57 but a wee bit more rejection. Try sticking the microphone through a 6x6 inch piece of foam as a sort of make shift baffle.

I've had drummers scratch track but only use keys words and not necessarily sing the whole phrase, first and last words with humming in between..

 

[JimmyS1969]

I'm thinking more along the lines of a ball gag.

If the singing drummer is also 'seasoned', I don't think you will have that much issue as long as he is consistent. I was a singing drummer and did a live recording once where my vocal mic wasn't patched in. I recall almost no bleed whatsoever. Tho I was a dreaded cymbal basher.

 

[moresound]

I'm thinking more along the lines of a ball gag.

If the singing drummer is also 'seasoned', I don't think you will have that much issue as long as he is consistent. I was a singing drummer and did a live recording once where my vocal mic wasn't patched in. I recall almost no bleed whatsoever. Tho I was a dreaded cymbal basher.

I was thinking the same thing Jim. But I think that seasoned may also be translated as Diva/prima donna.

 

[witzendoz]

Just use a good old SM58, all you can do.

Alan.

 

[Nate74]

Thanks all. I truly do appreciate your input and thoughts on this.

The 6"x6" foam thingy soundes like a really good idea. I'm gonna try that for sure.

Yeah, "seasoned" was supposed to imply "old dude who ain't gonna take suggestions from some kid (36) punk." They are paying me, so I'm inclined to do as they wish, but I also want to give them a good product for their money.

If he is somewhat consistant, then yeah, the "real" vocals will cover up any bleed from the scratch.

They seem to like to talk to each other during songs as well. "One more time" or "blow man blow" seem to be their favorite things to yell out durring songs. Usually a way to "conduct" the tune since they don't believe in arrangements. That could be an issue I guess, but maybe I take that part off the scratch tracks and use it in the finals...

Crazy old blues dudes...

Liking what I'm reading so far, thanks again guys. Now go call your mothers.

 

[witzendoz]

By the way, check out this band, I recorded all their albums full band live in the studio, including the vocals were the singer was playing acoustic guitar (miked). Some of their albums even had a drummer in the room as well. They wanted to do it this way coz that's how the early blues was recorded, and it works. The 1st 2 albums I did with them they insisted that I mixed it live to stereo no remixing, he pressure was on there.

The only problem with the foam on the drummer mic is that he may not be able to see the drums or the rest of the band. If these guys are good players they will pull it off.

Alan

 

[Nate74]

If these guys are good players they will pull it off.

Alan

Maybe not "good" but certainly "old". I hadn't thought about being able to see the drums. He only plays a 4 piece with 2 cymbals but I guess I have to wing it with the foam thingy. It'll be a chance to learn one way or the other I guess...

 

[Supercreep]

Drummer is too busy to sing a separate take for vocals?

Prepare to have ruined drum tracks.

 

[Greg_L]

Thanks all. I truly do appreciate your input and thoughts on this.

The 6"x6" foam thingy soundes like a really good idea. I'm gonna try that for sure.

Yeah, "seasoned" was supposed to imply "old dude who ain't gonna take suggestions from some kid (36) punk." They are paying me, so I'm inclined to do as they wish, but I also want to give them a good product for their money.

If he is somewhat consistant, then yeah, the "real" vocals will cover up any bleed from the scratch.

They seem to like to talk to each other during songs as well. "One more time" or "blow man blow" seem to be their favorite things to yell out durring songs. Usually a way to "conduct" the tune since they don't believe in arrangements. That could be an issue I guess, but maybe I take that part off the scratch tracks and use it in the finals...

Crazy old blues dudes...

Liking what I'm reading so far, thanks again guys. Now go call your mothers.

If they're paying you to be their "producer" then man up and tell them what to do. Tracking a singing drummer live is retarded. I'll be shocked if it comes out worth a shit. If they want a good recording and are willing to pay for it, then put your foot down and be the boss.

 

[Track Rat]

The best luck I've had with a simging drummer is an MD-441. Tight pattern and the off axis sound isn't too horrible. If they agree to a scratch track, have him hold back and not try to belt it out as they would in a performance so as to try and keep his voice out of the drum mics.

 

[Nate74]

Not sure how it is with other hobbyist recording guys but I don't exactly have bands beating down my door to pay me right now. If I'm lucky I do 5 or 6 paying bands a year, and in the past year or so, it's been half that. That being said, if these old dudes want to do it this way, that's what we'll be doing. I'll try the foam and crank his vocal mic in his headphones with the hopes of keeping his scratch vocals quiet. If we listen back to the first few takes and the drum tracks are jacked, I'll suggest that he just sing the first word of each line. If that doesn't work... maybe we try to get some keeper takes and just deal with it.

 

[chrisharris]

Not sure how it is with other hobbyist recording guys but I don't exactly have bands beating down my door to pay me right now. If I'm lucky I do 5 or 6 paying bands a year, and in the past year or so, it's been half that.

Dude, you're not listening. You need to grow a pair and tell them how the world works. If they don't listen to you, you need to start off by shooting the least important member...that'll be the bass player. Since it's blues, the singer/drummer will be next. If you have to start killing guitar players before they get the hint, that's just the way it is. Man up.

 

[JimmyS1969]

There is much truth in the fact that to be respected, you must direct a musician to perform at his best to get the most possible out of the performance. You must also be correct in your direction. It may seem like you could be putting someone off by demanding the way to achieve this, but if you don't-and it sucks........guess who is to blame? Your reputation and future work depends mostly upon the product you put out. Arrogant musicians that have no clue, are not worth your time. Arrogant musicians who can play, and listen to criticism, will allow you to work with more 'quality' projects. Great musicians are artists who care about the whole project and it's outcome. Seems 'seasoned' and 'great' are far departed in your case here.

I could be wrong as I am an arrogant drummer that won't listen to shit! LOL!

 

[Bobbsy]

If you can beg/borrow/steal an Audix OM7, that's my "get out of jail free card" for singing drummers for both live and recording use. It combines a very directional pattern with a deliberately low sensitivity so it picks up a bare minimum of spill. It's a nice sounding mic as well--a bit smoother and less upper presence peak than the SM58/57 family.

It's perfect with drummers and darn useful for vocals with any noisy bands...I bought my first one on recommendation and have found it so useful that I now have 3 of the things.

Bob

 

[Bobbsy]

If you can beg/borrow/steal an Audix OM7, that's my "get out of jail free card" for singing drummers for both live and recording use. It combines a very directional pattern with a deliberately low sensitivity so it picks up a bare minimum of spill. You'll need a decent mic preamp with lots of range to get the best out of it. It's a nice sounding mic as well--a bit smoother and less upper presence peak than the SM58/57 family.

It's perfect with drummers and darn useful for vocals with any noisy bands...I bought my first one on recommendation and have found it so useful that I now have 3 of the things.

Bob

 

[witzendoz]

While I cringe when there is a singing drummer, Don't forget the Eagles had a singing drummer, have a listen to the live "hell freezes over" DVD, the vocals from the drummer sound fine (Beta 58 I think).

If they need to do the vocals live as a guide, you will have to live with it. The performance is everything. If you stuff them around and make them feel uncomfortable the performance will go out the door. If the guide vocal is in time with the overdubbed vocal all will be fine, if there is some error in the timing ad a little echo to the vocal track to cover it up. Explain this to the drummer that he needs to sing the correct words in time.

The session has to be fun for the band, they are paying the money.

Alan.

 

[Greg_L]

While I cringe when there is a singing drummer, Don't forget the Eagles had a singing drummer, have a listen to the live "hell freezes over" DVD, the vocals from the drummer sound fine (Beta 58 I think).
.

Like most commercially released "live" albums from major bands, I'd bet everything was overdubbed after the fact. Which coincidentally is what this guy should do.