Total N00B Question About Lap Tops

  • Thread starter Thread starter AGroove
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Well, it depends on what you do and how you work.

Simple recording and playback, even in multitrack, is a pretty light load on most computers. However, as soon as you start adding real time effects or VSTi instruments, the pressure goes up rapidly with the number of effects and tracks.

Even so, I'd put my money into more RAM and a faster hard drive rather than worrying about the fastest/latest processor.

Somebody earlier mentioned custom built computers and, if you can trust the person/company doing it that can be a good way to do it because you get the features you need and don't pay for things you don't like gamer's video cards. That's one of the reasons I speak highly of Lenovo...it's not a fully custom build but they do allow you a lot of latitude in what you put on your computer in terms of selected various options. I imagine there are others that so the same but I've just had good luck with them so far.
 
Bobbsy said:
Trouble is that lots of useful things are disappearing from laptops--they're being treated more and more like tablets with a keyboard. Come my next upgrade I'll almost certainly have to find an alternative to Firewire since I only managed it this time via an adaptor in a Cardbus slot...and those slots are disappearing rapidly.
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Have you looked for laptops with thunderbolt? Is that common?
It can carry firewire with a breakout cable/adapter.
 
It's far from common just now but I'm hoping this may change come my next upgrade! For example, the one that AGroove links to above does have Thunderbolt so that's a good sign!

OT, but the other option I'm looking at is bypassing conventional interface-type stuff entirely and going to one of those ethernet based solutions like Dante or similar--the right adaptor in my mixer could let me feed tons into a laptop with a bit of Cat5/6. I realise this is specific to my needs and not for everyone, but...
 
Considering the spec of the machine in question, the price isn't bad.

The issue would be whether that high a spec is needed--and that comes down to earlier questions about number of tracks, real time effects, use of VSTis, etc. etc.

It's not that different to the spec of the Lenovo I bought about 3 years ago and it's been a very good workstation for both audio recording and video editing. Right now that machine might be overkill but I guess the other issue would be that with the presence of Thunderbolt and an Expresscard slot (which are getting rare) it's pretty future proof too.
 
Hmm? Only had a brief look but for $1600 it seems you get a mechanical drive and only 500G at that (this HP i3 has 640G). Just 4G of ram and no HDMI port? THAT could be MOST unhandy.

Yeah, I know Tfart can do it WITH AN ADAPTOR but then it is tricky it seems to use TB for anything else?

Dave.
 
LOL

I didn't even look that far. That laptop is even more hilariously overpriced than I assumed. I bought my laptop with 4GB of RAM and an 800GB HD (and 17" screen) for $400 - a year ago. No the processor isn't anything dazzling, but those upgrades will buy you modest returns at most compared to additional RAM.
 
I am open to more suggestions of what I may need, that was just sent to me by someone. I was talking to my guitar player yesterday and he insisted on Macs for live settings over a PC. I just want to get someone soon so I can begin recording. At home I am going to be recording with my Roland V-Drums and live maybe running tracks through ableton or a simple click. Apart from that light video editing and recording/jamming with bass through an interface. Budget isn't really an option but if I can save money why not. I know I keep asking but even a few links to what I need would be awesome. I really appreciate all your help.
 
If budget isn't an option and your guitar player insists on a Mac, then get a Mac.

I know I keep asking but even a few links to what I need would be awesome.
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You can search for your own links as well as anyone else.
 
Trouble is, there's no simple "what you need is X" answer. There are people on this website doing good music on everything from ten year old desk tops running XP to the latest and greatest modern high speed super laptop.

Beyond that, you're going to find people who say "it has to be a Mac" while others say "only fools spend the extra money for the Mac name".

My advice? Go back and read the general suggestions about features to include for things like USB ports, RAM, Disks, processors, etc then buy the best you can afford (without leaving yourself without beer!) that has all or most of those things.

That Lenovo you linked to would certainly do the job. Maybe you could take a step down in terms of the processor and upgrade the RAM (that's cheap) and maybe add the SSD option...but that's not essential.
 
If mac suits your workflow and lifestyle then I can't fault them.
Sure you'll pay more - that's how it is. Get over it. :p

Go used or apple refurb if you're comfortable with it and don't pay them for upgrades.
Put the ram and SSD in yourself. It won't invalidate the warranty.

If you go PC that's great but make the most of it.
You're saving money over a mac so don't settle for less. There's no reason you shouldn't get a very powerful windows machine with i7 8gb or more and an SSD in it for cheaper than a comparable mac.
If you're an upgrade freak, do consider resale value. I paid £700 for my 2011 MBP in 2011. I'd get £350-400 on a good day for it right now with the configuration it has.
So yeah, they're more expensive, but they hold it.


I'm not sure I agree with Chili's first post about OS X stability being less true or less relevant now. OS X is still notoriously stable thanks, in part, to the limited hardware situation.
It's also just a damn good, non intrusive, OS. It stays out of your way and, in my experience, doesn't really require maintenance, even for lazy or less knowledgable users.

You can still have hiccups with interfaces and peripherals but do your research as with any computer. It's all out there.
If you end up with incompatible gear on mac or pc, it's your fault.

I know people will say their windows machine doesn't require maintenance. It does. Either that or it requires you to be knowledgable and careful about what you do, to avoid requiring maintenance.
I find OS X much more forgiving in that respect. Basically, if you put a mac and a PC in the hands of an idiot, they'll break the PC.


I've been on apple for about 5 years now and I don't really recall having to fix anything.
You can, of course, achieve the same stability and reliability with a microsoft box or laptop, but it'll require you to be on the ball a lot more. That's all I'm saying.
 
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...and that's the problem with these threads. They always seem to degenerate into an Apple vs. Windows debate.

I've used both and both will do the job. I personally think the supposed differences in stability are, these days at least, overplayed. As long as you're not silly about installing lots of rubbish on a Windows machine, it just sits there and works. Similarly, every time Apple issue an OS upgrade, there's a flurry of queries and problems on the software support site I help at. These tend to disappear a few bug fixes later. The biggest difference is that, because of the Apple reputation, users assume problem stem from the DAW software, not from changes made by Apple!

Buy the best laptop you can afford now. If your drummer uses Mac maybe think about that just so you can use the same stuff. On the other hand, you WILL get more computer for your money if you stick to Windows. You'll also get more flexibility in terms of hardware and software with Windows compared to Mac...but with this flexibility comes the risk that you might do something silly. However, don't overplay this. My home (Windows based) system just sits there and works.

For the most part, it doesn't matter.
 
Bobbsy said:
...and that's the problem with these threads. They always seem to degenerate into an Apple vs. Windows debate.

I've used both and both will do the job. I personally think the supposed differences in stability are, these days at least, overplayed. As long as you're not silly about installing lots of rubbish on a Windows machine, it just sits there and works. Similarly, every time Apple issue an OS upgrade, there's a flurry of queries and problems on the software support site I help at. These tend to disappear a few bug fixes later. The biggest difference is that, because of the Apple reputation, users assume problem stem from the DAW software, not from changes made by Apple!

Buy the best laptop you can afford now. If your drummer uses Mac maybe think about that just so you can use the same stuff. On the other hand, you WILL get more computer for your money if you stick to Windows. You'll also get more flexibility in terms of hardware and software with Windows compared to Mac...but with this flexibility comes the risk that you might do something silly. However, don't overplay this. My home (Windows based) system just sits there and works.

For the most part, it doesn't matter.
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Bobbsy said:
I use Lenovo laptops for audio (I often have to do location stuff so laptop is better for me than a desktop). I'm on my second one now and have been extremely happy with both...less so with a venture into the Toshiba world in the middle. My only reason for changes each time was a need for hardware changes forced on me by software...for example, Audition which I use changed to 64 bit only a few years back.

I've used Mac as well occasionally but can't justify the extra money. I have no reliability or stability problems with Windows. FYI, I'm still on Win 7, won't touch 8 but may change to 10 if all is good when SP1 comes out and all the interface people have updated their drivers.

The tips above are all good...I'd go for 2 drives (one SSD and one HDD, preferably 7200rpm. At least 4 gig, preferably 8 or more gig memory. Make sure the video card lets you hook up a second monitor (most do but just check)...laptop screen real estate is pretty limited with modern DAWS.

USB 2 and 3 are a good idea...if you can find a laptop that still has an Express Card slot, they can really be useful (but damn hard to get these days.
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Pretty much said everything I was going to say, and more.

Apple vs. Mac... The age old debate that everyone loves to jump into, but very few people actually understand. Apple has always been committed to quality- even if they lose a profit by doing so. If you get a Mac, you will have a fine machine that has almost no issues, and great customer support. But you also won't be able to do much more than what Apple allows (this is more true for phones and tablets, but still rings true for the most part when talking about Macs.). For most folks, this isn't a problem. With Macs, what you get is what you get. It comes out of the box and works, and there's nothing more that you can really do to it. PC's you can upgrade the crap out of hardware and software wise (and often at a much cheaper price.) But you have to know what you're doing. For most people, they just want to get a computer that runs and they don't want to have to do anything with it. If this is you (even though it pains me to say it), I would suggest a Mac. Personally, I go PC every time. But I think that if you get a Mac, you won't have any complaints once you are used to the radically different OS. Apple is reliable.
 
Please, please do not buy that laptop.
Please, please do not worry (or even think) about getting something with a vga output.

quick reasons:
The laptop is a workstation, it is also a "W" model.
VGA is outdated by around 20 years with a maximum resolution of 640x480.
Both are outdated, one by only 2 years the other by ten times as much.


Longer reasons if you care, though those should be enough:
1. A workstation is a computer made to be stronger, resist damage, be more reliable, etc. All good things, right? Well, sort of. They also come with different processors generally, in a desktop that would be the Haswell-E and the Xeon for the current enthusiast grade pc and workstation, respectively. Workstation use different types of graphics cards, usually a good bit more expensive than all but the best enthusiast grade. The top enthusiast card is around $1200 right now and the workstation card (Quadro,like that one has) can run over $4000 for the top. The line is blurring as computers advance, but there are still some major differences. I just built a beast of a desktop with the fastest non-Xeon (workstation), non-X (extreme), Intel i7 with 32GB ram and on and on for $1900, granted building it myself gets me a little discount but it's not much. My point is just that computers are dirt cheap now. I will look tomorrow and I promise I can find one that will kick that one's butt and be way more than you need for half that price, if you want me to. Just say the word. I know a good bit about computers, well, a lot really. I own a Macbook Pro also. The reasons why Macs were considered better for sound and graphics ten-fifteen years ago don't exist anymore. I refuse to take sides in the debate except to say that Macs are notoriously non-upgradable (with the exception of ram on some laptops. I paid 80 bucks to double mine from 4 to 8 GB, the Apple store wanted $460), this changed for desktops with the last generation of Macs but has changed back now due to their new beautiful looking round desktop. Keep in mind if you do go Macbook though, that the batteries are not user replaceable so if you get a used one you can basically just add $200 to the cost. I can talk for days about it, but if the specs are similar, the computers are similar. Different people like different operating systems. I assume you've used a computer before so you know one or the other. If you want to try a Macbook Pro and you're in the U.S., promise me you're trustworthy, pay the shipping both ways (it should fit in the flat rate medium box which is like 6 bucks), and give me a small deposit to hang on to and you can try mine for a month or so. It's got Garageband, one good thing about them although I heard it costs now, it really is a decent usable progam, Logic Pro 9 (maybe 10 in a week), Ableton Live 9 and about 5 grand worth of plugins on it. It's got some cracked trackpad but it works perfectly and if you either get a bluetooth mouse or a usb one it's easier anyway. It's got a mini-HDMI out so you can use it on any TV or whatever. We'll make the deposit low enough that you'd be getting the deal of a lifetime were I to steal it. I still use the computer for sound and it's got the entire Adobe Creative Suite 6 on it that I use for tons of stuff. A really cheap (free, or maybe 20 bucks at the most in shipping) way to try out a Mac. They are a little better now, but this one a few years old will do anything you need. If you were willing to pay for one, you can get probably about four times the computer in a pc. I'm not arguing that a pc is better, just cheaper.

edit: oh yeah, workstations originally were and pretty much still are for professionals that need processor power, ram, and graphics power. Animators, like for Pixar, CAD designers, like architects, car designers and the like. There are really not very many subgroups that really needs all three of those. That's one reason it says 'mobile workstation', they wouldn't put 'mobile' in front of something that were supposes to move. They called them mobile phones until it became normal for them to move.
"The ThinkPad W541 is your mobile option for true, workstation-level performance. From 3D rendering to enhanced multitasking, the W541 gives you the power you need without the added bulk."
The W5xx series is two years old, as is the fourth gen Intel they are touting.

2. VGA - just google it. It's ridiculously ancient. I'm surprised anyone would even want it now. HDMI, Thunderbolt, USB 3.0 and 3.1, Displayport and probably some I'm not thinking about run resolutions that are much higher than 1080p HD, especially Displayport and Thunderbolt where you can chain 9 of them together. Not to mention they all carry an audio signal as well while VGA doesn't. I've been trying to think of something with a resolution of 640x480 to compare it to and I can't think of anything digital that is that small, maybe the first cellphones. Actually, don't waste your time googling it, that should be enough.
 
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Instead of VGA let's say "15 pin D-sub connector" which is exactly what I'm using to type this message at 1920x1080 resolution. The D-sub is still very much a standard when you want to add a second (or even third) monitor to your display system for sound or video editing work.

As for your novel about the use of the phrase "work station" I can't be bothered to deal with that load of pseudo technical rubbish. Please stop confusing people who are asking for honest advice.
 
'novel'?, do you know what that means? That's barely a paragraph, most of it isn't actually on the historicity of workstations; there is a caveat before if you don't want to read it. It was meant for the OP, if he's offended by it, then I'm truly sorry. here is a link on the cards...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5Npt1BSF04
if you don't like some random dude, how about Dell saying exactly what I said? They even talk about 'mobile workstation'. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpqBP7wSCG8

I don't know how to be much more helpful to people asking for honest advice than to offer to loan them my computer to see if they like it, while telling them why they shouldn't waste their money on a workstation because the video card in it is a quarter of its price and does nothing for sound.
 
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you can say that if you want, but it's not the same thing. There are DAs, DBs, DCs, etc. They come with 9 pins up to around 40 I think. \
I was pretty sure that XGA was the highest a D-Sub (I would've guessed that one to be a 25 pin, I'm often wrong however) could reproduce which isn't 1920x1080, it's 10-something by 7 something. You're being slightly rude for no reason, while being wrong.
Maybe I'm wrong about the XGA, but not VGA. A D-sub is just shaped like a D. That isn't asking for a whole lot, specifically.
 
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