tone difference in punch-ins?

[campersand]

While editing some gutiar punches last night, my friend and I noticed that on many of the punches, the tone was a little less bright and the volume was a little lower than on the original track. This doesn't really make any sense, since we did the punches right after doing the original, so nothing changed.
Anyone else ever experience this or have any guesses as to what's going on?

 

[xstatic]

Very common phenoemenon. Did you record a bunch of songs and then go back and do the punch-in's? If so, you may have changed levels along the way slowly, the guitarist may be playing differently, strings more worn etc... Realistically, if you laid a track and then immediately went and didi the overdubs, than the guitar is probably laying back a bit on his/her playing which would create a tonal and a volume shift.

 

[campersand]

Very common phenoemenon. Did you record a bunch of songs and then go back and do the punch-in's? If so, you may have changed levels along the way slowly, the guitarist may be playing differently, strings more worn etc... Realistically, if you laid a track and then immediately went and didi the overdubs, than the guitar is probably laying back a bit on his/her playing which would create a tonal and a volume shift.

We did the punches for each song right after recording the original take, so nothing changed between the two. The playing approach differing slightly is possible but it still seems weird 'cause the attack sounds the same. Also, I don't see how playing more lightly would cause the high end to decrease in the tone. weird.

 

[xstatic]

Listen to any guitar. It does change. This is a completely normal phenomenon. Often times players tend to relax a little more once the initial take is down and they are just patching in and out. Next time try to have them play a little harder or experiment with it before he/she leaves. You haven't normalized any of the tracks have you?

 

[campersand]

nope, haven't normalized anything.

 

[xstatic]

Well, it kind of comes down to either you changed your settings, the source signal change, or the playing changed.... Take a guess which is more likely?

 

[campersand]

Yeah I guess the playing is the most logical explanation. I was just wondering if there was any software explanation for this, but I guess not.

 

[travelin travis]

I've played around with punch in's quite a bit and never had that problem. Strange. How are/were you monitoring during the original takes and the punch in's. Maybe something was bleeding into the mics during the original takes? Maybe a battery in an overdrive pedal has drained a bit? Who knows. Are the punch in volume and hi end difference enough to notice when listening to the entire mix? Maybe the guitarist is starting his playing right at the punch in point and that's creating a difference? If that's the case have him start playing a couple of bars before the punch in point and continue on a couple bars after the punch out point.

 

[HangDawg]

Ive experienced this before. It's called, "After telling the fucking guitar player not to change volume/tone settings they do it anyway out of habit or stupidity." And there you have it. Mystery solved.

 

[travelin travis]

Ive experienced this before. It's called, "After telling the fucking guitar player not to change volume/tone settings they do it anyway out of habit or stupidity." And there you have it. Mystery solved.

I'll admit it, I'm a knob twister myself.

 

[RezN8]

If you are using stomp boxes it could also be a battery or two is dying on you.

 

[campersand]

Ive experienced this before. It's called, "After telling the fucking guitar player not to change volume/tone settings they do it anyway out of habit or stupidity." And there you have it. Mystery solved.

That isn't it.

 

[campersand]

I've played around with punch in's quite a bit and never had that problem. Strange. How are/were you monitoring during the original takes and the punch in's. Maybe something was bleeding into the mics during the original takes? Maybe a battery in an overdrive pedal has drained a bit? Who knows. Are the punch in volume and hi end difference enough to notice when listening to the entire mix? Maybe the guitarist is starting his playing right at the punch in point and that's creating a difference? If that's the case have him start playing a couple of bars before the punch in point and continue on a couple bars after the punch out point.

We were monitoring with headphones both times, so I don't think there was any bleed. And no pedal hooked up either. I do have active pickups but the battery was replaced pretty recently so I don't think that's it either. Must just be a difference in playing, though it sure does sound like something else. Either way, I don't think it'll be noticeable in the final mix.

 

[xstatic]

The more you talk about it the more convinced I am that it is just a difference in playing. Dynamic attack certainly affects tonality as well as volume

 

[johnsuitcase]

I experience this very often. Generally, I just use the little handle on the punch clip to pull it up until it sounds right. I think it's the guitar or bass player laying back a little, as it seems to happen most with them, not so much with vocalists or keys.

I use Cubase SX as well, and I really like being able to adjust a clips gain without having to process it or automate the faders. Makes it much easier to match up a punch level (especially when a few weeks or months have passed since the original take!)

 

[campersand]

I use Cubase SX as well, and I really like being able to adjust a clips gain without having to process it or automate the faders. Makes it much easier to match up a punch level (especially when a few weeks or months have passed since the original take!)

As an addendum to this, is there any way to zero out that little volume handle without having to go back and drag it down again?

 

[Superhuman]

I've had this a good few times in the studio for all of the reasons listed above:
- string tone changes with use especially after a lot of bends
- temperature in the studio, if you turn on a heater and start playing there will be a significant change in tone over a half hour or so untill the temperature in the studio equalises - then of course the temerature will affect the wood which in turn will also affect the tone
- the longer you leave an amp on and/or play through it the hotter it gets, this also changes the tone
- Oh, yeah, don't fiddle with ANY settings, even back and forth because the chances are you will never get the exact setting again!

I've experienced tone differences playing DI through a Triaxis and Simul Calss 2:90 as the tubes heat up at different rates between the preamp and the poweramp. I got around this by warming the guitar up (taking it out of the case and playing for a while) and leaving the rig hooked up and powered the whoell time. i foundthat it takes at least a half an hour for the Mesa rack gear to balance out for tone and about the same for my Marshall amp.

 

[noisewreck]

As an addendum to this, is there any way to zero out that little volume handle without having to go back and drag it down again?

Yes. Not at my music computer right now, but when you click on a clip you should see the info on it on the info bar at the top of the project window. Along with the start/end times, length and such, you should see the clip volume info there as well. Just double-click on it, and type whatever volume you want. If you don't see the info bar, there is a triangle type button close or above the track inspector area. Just look around on the screen, you should see it. If you don't, then use the Help menu.