To make your old stereo speakers more suitable for monitoring.

[MISTERQCUE]

I luv fried pork chops, yellow rice and corn on the cob!


Hey Boray, I tried using your methods and for the life of me
I simply can't make my GENELEC's sound like pro monitors!!! HELP!!!!

 

[geekgurl]

I've been watching this little drama for a while and have kept out of it, but I'm going to just chime in ... just my .02 guys, OK, so take it for what it's worth.

Boray, it does seem like you've invested alot of energy into exploring this method of mixing and in defending it on the BBSes. Maybe MORE of the energy in defending it than researching it, who knows.

It seems to me, with all the the hours invested, one could pick up even a minimum-wage job, and in the same amount of hours, amass enough dough to GET decent monitors. I don't know how much stuff costs in Sweden, so maybe that's not a fair assumption (but I don't know what wages are either, and maybe their better than here, so ...).

At any rate, for example: I bought a pair of Event 20/20 monitors used. Cost: $200

I bought a Hafler P1500 amp, used. Cost: $200

Total: $400.

What's minimum wage in California these days, like $6.15 an hour?

$400 / 6.15 = 65 hours.

Damn, that's a lot of hours. But chances are most people who have this hobby make more than minimum wage. Shit, I can go down to the local bank and get a part-time job being a bank teller for $12/hour (I know, cuz that's what I did while in university). AND, what's your energy worth? Seems arguing really depletes energy, or creates negative energy, as well as takes time. But some people thrive on arguments and maybe you do, but I don't, so that's coming from my perspective.

 

[MISTERQCUE]

I've been watching this little drama for a while and have kept out of it, but I'm going to just chime in ... just my .02 guys, OK, so take it for what it's worth.

Boray, it does seem like you've invested alot of energy into exploring this method of mixing and in defending it on the BBSes. Maybe MORE of the energy in defending it than researching it, who knows.

It seems to me, with all the the hours invested, one could pick up even a minimum-wage job, and in the same amount of hours, amass enough dough to GET decent monitors. I don't know how much stuff costs in Sweden, so maybe that's not a fair assumption (but I don't know what wages are either, and maybe their better than here, so ...).

At any rate, for example: I bought a pair of Event 20/20 monitors used. Cost: $200

I bought a Hafler P1500 amp, used. Cost: $200

Total: $400.

What's minimum wage in California these days, like $6.15 an hour?

$400 / 6.15 = 65 hours.

Damn, that's a lot of hours. But chances are most people who have this hobby make more than minimum wage. Shit, I can go down to the local bank and get a part-time job being a bank teller for $12/hour (I know, cuz that's what I did while in university). AND, what's your energy worth? Seems arguing really depletes energy, or creates negative energy, as well as takes time. But some people thrive on arguments and maybe you do, but I don't, so that's coming from my perspective.

Excellent point their Ms.Geek!
Or if 400 is too much, a pair of used Proto J's @ $125 and a used Samson (from Sam Ash) amp for $100 and one can save even more money!

 

[Boray]

Another laughable thread....... at least you're keeping us amused in your idiocy, Boray -- I'll give you that much!

Another??? That's the same thread, moron!

 

[Boray]

I've been watching this little drama for a while and have kept out of it, but I'm going to just chime in ... just my .02 guys, OK, so take it for what it's worth.

Boray, it does seem like you've invested alot of energy into exploring this method of mixing and in defending it on the BBSes. Maybe MORE of the energy in defending it than researching it, who knows.

It seems to me, with all the the hours invested, one could pick up even a minimum-wage job, and in the same amount of hours, amass enough dough to GET decent monitors. I don't know how much stuff costs in Sweden, so maybe that's not a fair assumption (but I don't know what wages are either, and maybe their better than here, so ...).

At any rate, for example: I bought a pair of Event 20/20 monitors used. Cost: $200

I bought a Hafler P1500 amp, used. Cost: $200

Total: $400.

What's minimum wage in California these days, like $6.15 an hour?

$400 / 6.15 = 65 hours.

Damn, that's a lot of hours. But chances are most people who have this hobby make more than minimum wage. Shit, I can go down to the local bank and get a part-time job being a bank teller for $12/hour (I know, cuz that's what I did while in university). AND, what's your energy worth? Seems arguing really depletes energy, or creates negative energy, as well as takes time. But some people thrive on arguments and maybe you do, but I don't, so that's coming from my perspective.

Have you really been watching??? Then you would know that I have a pair of Alesis M1 active Mk2 that I'm quite happy with. If you just had read the first post in this thread through, you would have known that...

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

Another??? That's the same thread, moron!

And your point is???? Same thread or not, it's still quite humourous........ not really relevant, nor does it help your 'cause' at all, but it IS amusing in a Fox TV special kind of way.... moron...

 

[Boray]

And your point is???? Same thread or not, it's still quite humourous........ not really relevant, nor does it help your 'cause' at all, but it IS amusing in a Fox TV special kind of way.... moron...

That thread is just a bunch of people saying that you are wrong about my mixes. That should be about as humorous to you as your comments is to me.

 

[Boray]

I just posted the following on VSPlanet on a question if it would be better to mix on a bad system... "if you can make it sound good on a boom box, it would have to sound good on everything else":


I think there are a couple of reasons why you should mix on the best set of monitors/speakers you have:

1. A friend asked me if it was better to mix on a bad system instead of the great monitors he has. Because everything sounds great on the monitors anyway, so to get the mix great it would be better to try to get it good on a worse system instead... NO WAY!!! With good monitors, you are able to pin-point the mix exactly where it sounds absolutely best. With worse monitors, the range where it sounds good is much wider. You are not able to tell if "this" sounds better than "that". With good monitors - you can!

2. Good monitors when placed correctly are flat responding. This means that the frequency "curve" of these monitors is an average of all other speakers there is. Some maybe has more treble or bass while another has none and a third has too little mid range. Mixing on a flat responding system will give a mix that will sound good on all speakers. If you mix on your old not-very-flat stereo, then the mixes will sound very good on that particular stereo, but not at all like that on other stereos. It will probably sound okay, but with real monitors your mixes will sound better on all stereos.

3. Much is said that you should "learn" your speakers and that this is the most important thing to get improved mixes. This is true to a point. If you play a lot of commercial CDs on your stereo, you will try to go after the same sound... But as mixing is mainly to get it to sound as good as you can, this "knowing your speakers" is a bit overrated. For example, when you are in the process of EQing your drums, to get the hihat to sound as good as it can, no way that you will remember by then how hihats usually sound on commercial CDs on this stereo, you will go after what is sounding the best!!! That is what mixing is all about!!! And if then your stereo has a dip at 4kHz for example, then there is no way that what sounds best on this stereo will translate well to other stereos.


The best thing is to buy some real monitors. My old EQing method (trying to EQ for flatness with "what you have") had some big problems. I got too much high end and to little bass, so I just replaced one non-flat response with another. The new method (that I kind of posted as a compensation for the old bad one) works a lot better, but it's still no match for real monitors. As you can tell, it doesn't compensate at all for point nr 1 in this post. But I believe that you will get better mixing results with it than without it. But it's kind of a "never will happen" method as I think it would be very hard to borrow a couple of monitors from a friend, place them correctly and then do this method. I mean, you who have great monitors that you have gone through much trouble to place correctly - would you lend them out? The alternative would be to bring your stereo to someones studio... But that's also a lot of work and that would probably not work as good... It's really a lot easier to buy some real monitors right away.

/Anders

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

You've got a nice mix of decent info and a some real questionable info in there........

But anyways - live in your ignorance...
Seems you're here to argue rather than to learn.........

In any case, you've exceeded your entertainment value to me.........

 

[Boray]

Blue Bear Sound,

>You've got a nice mix of decent info and a
>some real questionable info in there........

That post is my opinion on monitoring, nothing else. If you didn't notice, it starts with "I think..."

>But anyways - live in your ignorance...
>Seems you're here to argue rather than to learn.........

Is that your religion?

 

[geekgurl]

Have you really been watching??? Then you would know that I have a pair of Alesis M1 active Mk2 that I'm quite happy with. If you just had read the first post in this thread through, you would have known that...

My point is, which I thought was quite clear, that if someone does NOT have decent monitors and an amp, then they could save up for such purchases. Come on now ... Isn't your target audience for this information the people who don't OWN such equipment? If they did, why would they go thru all the trouble?

 

[Boray]

My point is, which I thought was quite clear, that if someone does NOT have decent monitors and an amp, then they could save up for such purchases. Come on now ... Isn't your target audience for this information the people who don't OWN such equipment? If they did, why would they go thru all the trouble?

Of course anyone can save up to buy whatever they want, but that wasn't what you said. Your post was clearly directed to me. Exactly the same was suggested by someone else in the old thread, so you wasn't even first with this very funny joke...

 

[geekgurl]

Boray:

What I said wasn't intended to be a "joke" directed at you ... it's just an opinion. Albeit one that's different from yours. It's just a different perspective; you don't have to get defensive about it. Your opinion is valid, and so is mine. Variety is the spice of life; lighten up, dude!

Because I feel kinda bad that you think I'm attacking you, let me try to frame this in another way, OK?

If you or anyone else wants to test these theories and come up with a practical solution for monitoring with plain stereo speakers, I think that's great. I think it's a great experiment for those with mixing experience who want to do such a thing to embark upon. But it kinda falls in the realm of R&D, don't you think? I mean, it's theoretical, there's trial and error, it takes time ... maybe someday you or someone else will actually be able to come up with a monitor-simulation program that lets people calibrate their speakers, plug in their room dimensions, and voila! Instant monitor-ability. But again, that's some serious R&D.

So, I wouldn't recommend a newbie try to rent/borrow monitors to use as a reference, to rent/borrow/buy the necessary EQ, and whatever else to make this happen. No, I'd recommend that newbies -- or anyone who just wants to get the job done -- just buy monitors and an amp. Because working to save for it will take them probably as much time as trying your theory.

That was the basis of my comment. That's all. It actually wasn't to belittle you. OK?

 

[Boray]

geekgurl, Okay, that's true! That's about what I said myself in my long post some 3 posts back when I called it a "never will happen" method... No hard feelings!

/Anders