To BBE or not to BBE?

[dj9fingers]

Hi. I have a MSR 16 and use a BBE 442 in a rack with a insert to the lead vocal track in the mix down. It helps the tone and pulls the vocal up and out nicly. But it belonmgs to my x drummer and he wants it back. I'm wondering if any one uses one of these or if they make a better one for proaudio applications. Thanks!!!!

 

[dintymoore]

Back in the 90's several of my friends bought them and we quickly formed the opinion that it was perhaps the worst piece of gear ever.

What it's great for, is on a mic at Jack in the Box when you order food. Every one of those mics should have a BBE on it because they make things very loud and clear, just not in a musical way.

My experience is that it sounds terrible, but if your ears find a use for it, go for it... there are no rules.

 

[mixsit]

It's likely doing things you could do similarly by other methods. Thinking 'NewYork style compression here (parallel with tone shaping), saturation by other means.

 

[dintymoore]

dj9fingers if it works for you, and I don't mean this sarcastically, go for it.

I have lots of gear and things I do that all kinds of "experts" would say are dead wrong. If you listen to everybody you'll quickly come to the conclusion the best thing to do is probably watch tv like most people.

I use a T. C. Electronics Finalizer that I'm crazy about that will put your vocal on the front of the mix like you are talking about, but they're pretty expensive.

Maybe break down what it is about the BBE that you like (compression, limiting and eq I would guess) and see if you can use the separate tools that are in your DAW?

 

[jedblue]

I've got an 822. It often gets used at low settings before the three band limiter when I'm mastering the all analog stuff. I don't mind it at all. I've never used it tracking though.

 

[westgate]

i have in my rack and occasionally use, an aphex exciter. it can also brighten things up a bit.
i prefer not to use it tho unless absolutely necessary and in the very rare instances when i do i adjust it to it's lowest usable settings.

i've never tried a bbe unit.

 

[RAMI]

Maybe break down what it is about the BBE that you like (compression, limiting and eq I would guess

The BBE has compression and limiting??????

 

[The Ghost of FM]

I used to use the original BBE unit called the 2002. This was a 2 rack space high unit and was actually designed to be the home use model to inject into your stereo system in the tape monitor loop of your amp or receiver. I found the effect to be pretty good at clarifying the upper mids and highs and was clean enough to not add any hiss or noise to the signal chain.

I ended up trying it out in the mastering chain of my recording set up and had it inserted in the stereo buss of my mixer. I used it on a lot of the projects I used to work on and alway got pretty nice reviews on my songs and often times received praise for the clarity of the vocals...this partly due to using the BBE.

The points made about using it sparingly at lesser settings is true. The effect can get out of hand when cranked too high or if used on tracks that are all ready more then clear enough without it. Best to think of it as tool like any other and use it for the right jobs and it will be your friend.

BBE also used to make a foot pedal model for bass and electric guitar called the 601 and I had one of those too. On bass, it always added a nice snap to the upper end, kind of like putting new strings on without the hassle of actually changing the old ones.

I'm not sure though how effective a BBE unit is in these digitals days now where there's a modeler from everything under the sun but for those working in analog majoritively and want real analog processing in their sound, right up the chain before it gets converted to digital, the BBE can be of use.

Cheers!

 

[The Ghost of FM]

The BBE has compression and limiting??????

No, it does not.

In theory, it was supposed to reshape the harmonics that were said to get re-arranged in the amplification process and output them back to their original waveforms. The problem with the process though is that they put variable controls on it for the end user so the risk is always there to set it incorrectly, just like any other processor. I think a lot of folks just figured the more you cranked it, the better it should work and as a result of that failed thinking, many recording came out with the mids and highs all fucked up.

There was also a lot of inconsistency between all the models they offered over the years as they kept re-jigging the harmonic restructuring circuits and I personally found that many of the newer models didn't sound as good as the earlier ones. That's also why I stuck with their first generation home model as this one seemed to have the most amount of careful engineering put into it making it sound more natural then the funkier pro models that followed it. Kind of like finding the right guitar with just the right tone, not all BBE units were created equal.

Cheers!

 

[Beck]

The BBE 442 that I've had since the 90's is outstanding with analog, especially so-called narrow tracks. I only use it for half-track mastering and I wouldn't mix without it. I've never gotten into using the BBE for individual tracks.

 

[mixsit]

..In theory, it was supposed to reshape the harmonics that were said to get re-arranged in the amplification process and output them back to their original waveforms.

That was the one aspect of their claims I figured contained the most hooey (vs what ever other things it might have been doing.
Is there a precedence' like effect to advancing the top end perhaps?

Maybe I'm confusing with Aphex..

 

[dj9fingers]

Wow! All xlnt info and I'm thinkin it comes down to personal preference. I went on ebay and found over a dozen models that BBE makes. Time to do my homework. Thanks !!!

 

[The Ghost of FM]

That was the one aspect of their claims I figured contained the most hooey (vs what ever other things it might have been doing.
Is there a precedence' like effect to advancing the top end perhaps?

Maybe I'm confusing with Aphex..

Well, if that was in fact hooey, and I'm not sure that's the case, then the entire reason for building the device was a total waste...and I'm definitely not saying that's the case either.

Though it is a patented process, I believe all they're really doing is filtering some specific frequency bands and applying a tiny bit of delay to the unfiltered parts of the spectrum and the controls basically set what amount of the unfiltered sound got delayed. The end result is to get the signal back in phase and there-by add the clarity without necessarily boosting any mids or highs. BBE always claimed it was not an EQ process that was taking place.

The Aphex Aural Exciters were working on the principle of adding harmonic distortion to certain bands of frequencies and playing with the EQ. This was the meat of their process and though a lot of folks thought of these two companies doing the same thing to the sound, they were both going about doing their work in very different ways. Personally, I always preferred the BBE effect better.../2 cents

Cheers!

 

[mixsit]

Well, if that was in fact hooey, and I'm not sure that's the case, then the entire reason for building the device was a total waste...and I'm definitely not saying that's the case either.

Though it is a patented process, I believe all they're really doing is filtering some specific frequency bands and applying a tiny bit of delay to the unfiltered parts of the spectrum and the controls basically set what amount of the unfiltered sound got delayed. The end result is to get the signal back in phase and there-by add the clarity without necessarily boosting any mids or highs. BBE always claimed it was not an EQ process that was taking place.

The Aphex Aural Exciters were working on the principle of adding harmonic distortion to certain bands of frequencies and playing with the EQ. This was the meat of their process and though a lot of folks thought of these two companies doing the same thing to the sound, they were both going about doing their work in very different ways. Personally, I always preferred the BBE effect better.../2 cents

Cheers!

Yeah, not that they couldn't play with timing or phase or whatever, more that it was saying putting things back to more accurate'.

 

[The Ghost of FM]

Yeah, not that they couldn't play with timing or phase or whatever, more that it was saying putting things back to more accurate'.

Yeah, they did draw up some over simplified pictures of how the wave fundamentals were being corrected that was probably a bit overdone as far as their marketing department was concerned. They did intimate that their process was correcting the signal on a note for note basis in some of their earliest ads and that was definitely misleading. Even still, the process did seem to have pleasing effects and they did sell a boatload of product to a largely satisfied customer base.

I was a BBE dealer back in the 80's and we demonstrated their device to our customers and had tremendous sales with their fist generation unit. The following models, which were cheaper, also sold decently but not as convincingly to many of our clients who viewed the first model as really doing something magical to the sound and the following models being something of a glorified equalizer. FYI, I worked in a high end audio boutique store at that time and all of our clients were pretty much audiophiles with pretty critical ears.

Cheers!

 

[rayc]

I have to admit to secretly sending several mixes through the BBE just to hear what it might come out like. I rarely use it in the end BUT sometimes it's the right device at the right time & in the right place. The tweaking is an issue good if you know but bad if it's just guess & giggle.
I have an ancient piece of kit called an 801 Omnisonic Imager that isn't tweakable & it's not dissimilar to the BBE. It was made for home audio systems in the 70's. The use rate is about the same - sometimes it's spectacular (when playing 60's vinyl through it in particular) - usually it's not.
In fact there was atime when I'd do 2 mixes of everything - one as per usual and another through the 801 - just for comparison's sake.

 

[sweetbeats]

I've had a BBE 462 for about 15 years and it is a handy tool...I've used it as an insert when tracking bass (using the LF process) and as an inline processor for stereo program material. When I use it with mastering I use it in moderation...no knob goes past 12:00 for sure and usually they're not past 9:00 or 10:00 but I like it...haven't used it in awhile but never been a piece of gear I've considered selling.

 

[Beck]

I've had a BBE 462 for about 15 years and it is a handy tool...I've used it as an insert when tracking bass (using the LF process) and as an inline processor for stereo program material. When I use it with mastering I use it in moderation...no knob goes past 12:00 for sure and usually they're not past 9:00 or 10:00 but I like it...haven't used it in awhile but never been a piece of gear I've considered selling.

Amen Cory! Moderation is the key with most processing. The BBE is best at "Subtle." I remember in the early literature they called it the, "Unprocessor" and I pretty much agree with that since a long, complex signal chain can in fact degrade the signal. I found the BBE pretty much does what it claims if not overdone, so it remains in my bag of audio tricks along with a few other choice pieces of gear that I've had for many years.

By the way, in reply to some other comments by other members, the BBE is much different in the way in works than the Aphex Aural Exciter or the Alesis Micro enhancer. However, all of the above can help brighten narrow tracks that use dbx or old muffled videotapes that could use a little sparkle. I’ve used the Micro Enhancer to great effect when transferring old VHS to DVD.

 

[moresound]

Yup the BBE can be very dangerously close to the suck button.
Although there is one in my studio for that just in case situations - like the kick drum can go through it and you would add low for power and processed or what some people call the high for attack. The same with the snare through the BBE would help some too! But in moderation it's so easy to go over board thinking to one's self "man this sounds great" just to end up with it not sitting right in the mix. Beware...