to all you thrash punks

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musicsdarkangel

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alright, whoever that was who made the comment backfiring at me, i'm sorry, i wasn't trying to fight or anything. However, I must say, if you do anything but death metal (which it seems thats what your doing), nsync SUCKS at writing music. Why? well, for starters, they aren't the ones who write it up. You know what? i won't continue. I'll just finish it there. Think before you talk man. You'd be surprised with the great results you'll get.
 
You have failed your English test for the last time, begone with your ignorant self.
 
?????????????????????

how old are you "darkangel"? 12?

make a song interesting by having a soft verse and loud chorus? hmmm.... where have I seen that before?

come on!
 
NSYNC may not write their own songs but at least they can SING their own songs, unlike most death metal acts (In Flames aside). :D

Also theres hardly anything original about 32nd note bass drum roles and 3 guitarists chugging on the same dropped D. I know Im generalizing but....in general its true. Although I will never spend money on and NSYNC or Backstreet Boys record, at the very least they can sing, there is usually at least one interesting thing going on in a song like an unexpected key change or an interesting passing chord or a completely derivative melody that has a tiny deviation in phrasing from what youd expect which makes it just a tiny bit more listenable. Just a tiny bit.
 
DAMNIT, that kid just doesn't get it.

I totally agree with you JuSim. 90% of the "extreme" metal is just double bass rolls and drop d guitars. The double bass stuff is more a part of death metal and black metal then hardcore stuff. I play in a hardcore/crossover death metal/ crossover metalcore type thing ( and we tune down to drop d too, but that isn't the point). Sounds dumb, but it's fun to play. I don't come from a background of that shit, and I try to add a little more interest to the music. Some things like MELODY, and HARMONY that are noticeably absent from most of that kind of music.
Also there has not been ONE band that plays REAL death metal to EVER make it big (by big I mean on the radio, known by the mass populous). A real death metal band : Nile

Check out a song by Nile and be amazed by how bad it is. That's death metal at its finest.

SPLIPKNOT/MUDVAYNE and all the rest of that crap IS NOT hardcore. It's wannabe music that is sold by an image. To see the kind of stuff my band plays you can check out this awesome band entitled Killswitch Engage.

http://www.killswitchengage.com

They know their shit, music is interesting, and they have TONS of energy live.

I can't stand 90% of the music generalized into the extreme metal genre. I'd much rather sit down and hear the Dido record then a Cryptopsy album. There are a few gems though.

As for Britney, N*Sync and all a them.

DARKSANGEL: I NEVER SAID I THOUGHT THEY WROTE THEIR OWN MUSIC. That is SO obvious that they don't. I said "Compared to Britney's songwriting, mine is just different." Just cause I said "Britney's songwriting" doesn't mean I think she wrote the song. You still won't get what I'm saying, and continue being ignorant and disgracing our generation, but theres nothing I can do about that. Just don't MENTION me in ONE more thread, please. You completely aren't worth my time.

Jake
 
the curse of death metal

Hey Jake.

:) I find it interesting that you can diss drop-D tuning and then say you use it in the next line! :)

Admittedly, drop-d can be used well (check out Pearl Jam's "Habit" on No Code... really cool song. In Drop-D). I play in the weirdest tunings sometimes... I have writting a song where the tuning is g-g-d-g-c-g, but can't play it live cos I don't have enough guitars! it takes a while to get that tuning right, especially in a loud club where the tuning is done behind the bar :)

I know what you mean about death metal and people who say they play it and people that actually play it. It is SO f'ing boring. And such an OLD sound. There are too many metal bands in South Africa to count! And I get so frustrated, cos they're taking up stage time with rubbish! Wanna start a anti-death metal page for rockers? ;) Slipknot/Bizkit/Korn and co ARE full of crap...I could also put on ugly make up and play a SEVEN string guitar with TRIPLE drop d tuning and sing about how much I hate you (I'll never get people who buy CD's where the 'artists' curse at the listener!)... and see how many times I can say "Fuck" in a measure... argh... they annoy me. Heavy stuff IS fun to play, as a joke, for a laugh, with your mates... but you'll not find me playing too much!

ciao
NS
 
I dissed drop-d when they just chug away on the same chord. Drop D does make it easier to play chords, but it also allows you to do things that you can't do in standard tuning. Fast runs with power chords, hammer ons/pull offs with power chords that aren't possible in standard. I play some stuff that the guitar is tuned to all one pitch. Two Low A's, two middle range A's, and two high A's. Get some very intersting noises, when you pick as fast as you can with lots of gain. Picked up the trick from NIN. They do that with tons of reverb and distortion, and you can't even tell what the sound is, it's just this tone, no character to it, very cool. Check out every album by Tool, (except for Crawl Away on Undertow, thats their one standard song, and PrisonSex on Undertow has the E tuned down to B) every song is Drop D. They have intelligent music.

I play in drop d, and we play really heavy music. Our music is a whole lot more interesting then any of that shit I've heard. We attempt to be original, and thanks to me, not completely mindless. If it was up to the singer or drummer it probably would be mindless.

Our singer does curse at the listener at times, but he's an angry guy. If you'd been through what he had, you would be too.

Jake
 
Hmmm.

You gotta ask yourself. Do I (the listener) care what the singer has been through enough to take cursing from the guy? MEANINGFUL music, IMHO, is music that MOVES people to do something... not some heart wrenching wail by Celine Dion that uses clever progression twists to have a moving sound, but stuff that lyrically and musically communicates an emotion and allows the listener to interpret it for themselves, create their own opinion and take action on it. Songs that "TELL" you how to feel (eg "you broke my heart"/"fuck you bitch"), and have no room for manouver on the listeners part, are basically pointless. You're just venting to strangers. And you have to remember, music is a luxury. People don't HAVE to listen to your stuff. And often, if you present them with ranting/tell them what to think, the decent ones [ME :)] turn it off.

I am going to try out that tuning... I am really getting into NIN... recently got the Closer remix stuff..... really cool. Scared my sister when I had to take her somewhere in my car though (I listen to most of my music while driving)!

NS
 
The point isnt drop D tuning. Motzart couldve drop D tuned and that wouldnt have made him any less a genius. The point is that death metal as a medium of expession is dead, read: over, has worked itself all out, has nothing new or original to contribute to the world of music et al. Death metal actually died somewhere around the first fear factory release in 92. They started singing however amateurly along with the death vox and from that point on barring a handful of exceptions, labels signed bands that imitated that mix of singing and atonal screaming. (Alot of those exceptions by the way are mostly swedish, have more interesting melody and harmony than almost anything else going on in rock today that uses a distorted guitar as its central instrument.)
Also, Korn and slipknot are not death metal they are MAINSTREAM hardcore. (Not that being mainstream is bad, at least no if all your "credibility" comes from being underground) I was actually a huge fan of the first korn record and got it in late '94, easily a couple of years before anybody thought of korn as anything other than the butter dripping variety. That first record was where it shouldve stopped musically.. groundbreaking for its mix of production and non production...which every band in the genre has basically tried to imitate, but when there is money to make in the music industry, you got to push something till its complete death. Until it is so played out- listening to australian aborigine digeree doos is more interesting. But I digress. My point of posting this was to agree with nationalsandwich's post:

"make a song interesting by having a soft verse and loud chorus? hmmm.... where have I seen that before? "

That way of writing is working 4 years overtime at the very least and has been an excuse for non musicians all over the world to purchase gear and jam up time slots at clubs, make the pile of shite on A&R guys desks go from 2 feet to 8 feet. When the only emotion a band can express is anger its a sure sign that the talent is in very short supply. Truly, rock has never been more mindless in its history. (The only runner up would be 70s punk.) Im frankly embarassed to admit to people that I played drums in a korn-derivative band, but that was in '95 when that whole genre was just getting started. If you are in such a band now, I implore you to lay your instruments down. To those musicians who say " but dude, this stuff is REAL" ...to that I say..so is stravinsky, only MUCH better articulated.
 
JuSum: I understand where you are coming from, but I totally disagree with you. My band, and tons of other bands out there, sound NOTHING like Korn, Slipknot and such. Our lyrics aren't only "fuck you bitch". They are sometimes along those lines, but not to that extreme. We have a song about someone else, speaking to them in the 2nd person (i think thats what it is). The singer says something along the lines, "There is no love, you make me evil because, you are a waste of my time, you are a waste of life". They could be directed at the audience, but no the extreme of "fuck you bitch". The rest of our stuff is more about things that have happened to our singer and his reaction to them. They have meaning, and really do turn heads.

Even though you apparently don't care, you will understand more after hearing his story:

This allt akes place right after that whole Columbine incident. My singer is a junior at a high school, and he dresses "goth". He wasn't one of those poser-esque goths, he was really heavy into the shit. Columbien happens. All the teachers my dsinger has decide he is a "risk" to other peoples safety. He is at the top of his class, and is well liked by most everyone in the school despite his appearance. Because of his designation as a risk, the school decides to expel him. They won't foramlly do this, because they have no real grounds, but they do anyway. Not only do they expel him, but they reccommend to his parents he get put in a menatl institution for evaluation. My singer is adopted, and doesn't have an extremely close relationship to his parents. They decide its a good idea and put him in a hospital. He remained in this hospital for 6 months, where they fed him ant-physcotic drugs non-stop. He became hooked on a bunch of prescription pills that they said "he needed" when he needed none of them at all. When they finally released him, he had to break an EXTREME addiction, and deal with so many sideways glances (cause he was in the looney house for half a year). All because of how he dressed. This kinda pissed him off, and he became severely depressed. Because of this he started sadiomasichism, aka, cutting himself. He had major issues with that. I finally recruited him into my band, and broke him of that habit, and got him completely clean. He had a lot of emotion to express, and he deserved to. He put everything he had into those songs, and it showed.

We do play heavy metal/hardcore music, but it has musicality to it, and we are trying as hard as we can to be original, and not sound like everyone else.

Generalizing an entire genre of music like you did is just ignorant. You encouraged people to stop playing music they LOVE because you don't like it. Just because in your opinion the music isn't going anywhere, and it's all just been getting worse since 92, doesn't mean that other people don't love making it and playing it. The first Korn album is the last thing my band, and any other band in my genre wants to copy. It might have shown a taste of this style of music to the mass-public, but it didn't show it accurately. Nothing has as of yet.

Jake
 
Dude. I really don't mind WHAT you play... you can do what you want! My question was addressed at your ideas for a future of the music. This hopefully clarifies it! (Not a personal attack on you! Just a conversation with someone on 'that side'!)

WHEN: the lyrics don't relate to the audience (it's a terrible story, and I have pity for the dude... but does it make him a better singer?), what are you trying to achieve?

WHEN: the MAINSTREAM industry is flooded with idiots who DO hammer drop-d riffs, and people ARE BUYING into it in the masses and there seems to be no end to the shit, where does a band that tries its best to follow the real original ideas behind the music, fit in with a realistic future in the industry. Like it or not, this IS a business that wants to make a profit. And audience appeal=popularity=cash... so guess who's getting deal offers?

The reason I ask these questions is:

People are constantly dissing these MAINSTREAM HARDCORE bands and rip off metal bands, but that doesn't help the music or the industry. WE are concerned (as musicians) about the music... the fact that it is B-S no talent stuff. BUT the people with the cash don't REALLY care... if it sells more, it is more attractive. THE SOLUTION: make the "real" music attractive to record companies!

May seem obvious, but it seems that what most people who are interested in the "REAL" stuff are saying is that it doesn't matter if people listen to it or not, they are doing it for themselves... some kind of private crusade againts the mainstream... well, IMHO people like that (people with no drive to CHANGE stuff in a REAL way) have no place dissing the music... at least Korn/Fear Factory and co. GOT their stuff out their. It wasn't easy for them either, even if it is crap.

What am I doing to try and make a REAL difference? I am getting involved in a young band (I'd assume about your age) who are into this kind of stuff... and HELPING them to bring out a new sound... doesn't necessarily mean new instruments or equipment or sound... MOSTLY it means a change in the way they think about WHAT THEY WANT TO SAY TO THE WORLD.

Cheers
NS
 
Jake, No offense but that story about your singer sounds seriously contried and highly unlikely...in fact it sounds exactly like the storyline to a famous ST song..."...all I wanted was a pepsi, etc" At best its one persons distorted perception of what happened. I aint where youre at and my point had nothing to do with the type of music you play. "REAL" music is not "I hate you, youre a waste of my time, etc" That to me is more cliche than anything britney spears ever sang. THATS exactly what Im talking about ...all the kornwannabes are putting out records which all sing the same refrain: "I hate you, you ruined my life, blah blah blah, etc" It could be our age dif, as that kind of music hits you bec emotionally thats where you are at this point, so thats "REAL" to you. Ive lost touch with my adolescent angst as I am not an adolescent anymore. There will come a day when you will see that as totally contrived, aside form musically mindless (in most cases, Im sure your band is an exception). "There is no love, you make me evil??" I dunno bro.
In any case, I wasnt talking so much about lyrical content and more about the music and the writing and mixing. IMHO as far as the hardcore/metalcore is concened there are many other things to be done with a dist guitar that are not being broached so you end up with bands that have virtually the same guitar sound, the same drum sound and zero capacity for melody, very limited imagination as far as songwriting so it all sounds the same. Its hard to say wat the future is but I think deftones is pointing in one possible direction, while not the most amazing, they are original and charting some new ground for the genre with the slower more contemplative stuff. I personally think it couldve used another year of development but it aint a bad start. One thing is abundantly clear: screaming atonally at the top of your lungs about some chaotic relationship you had when you were 15 years old is tired.
 
I'm not going to bother arguing with you about this, but I'll say one last thing. That story about my singer is about as true as it gets, from any viewpoint. He was discriminated against because of how he looked. He was straight A's, 3rd in his class, and well liked. Just because of his personal style, he was expelled. He never ONCE got into any trouble in that school.

Jake
 
Now, if the lead singer had grown up in Bangaladesh and straved as a child and saw all his friends die from starvation and his parents killed in civil war, then I could feel sorry for him. He was born in a country of fat cats where he had the time to pretend he was something other than he really was. All he had to do was dress differently and none of this would have happened? I dont buy it.
 
You don't have to. And his parents weren't killed in a civil war, just a car crash when he was 4.

Jake
 
yea..

yea, theres nothing i hate more then deathmetalers just rattling off chords in drop d. However, there are talented ones, such as God Forbid, Shadowsfall, and Cradle Of Filth. AND I LOVE IN FLAMES though they're aren't death metal.
 
hmm...

- parents killed when he was 4.
- adopted by parents who don't seem to be THAT concerned.
- takes up dressing in a fashion that is "rebellious", but actually rather stupid @ age 14 (or whatever age he was)
- gets expelled as a STRAIGHT A student? for doing nothing? well. I am sure that contravenes the US constitution... it certainly would the South African constitution; unfair discrimination.
- gets sent to a "hospital" where he gets heavily addicted to the "drugs" in 6 months??? NO ONE would be submitted to chemical psychiatric treatment on the recommendation of a school because of 'the clothes he wears'!!!! NEVER.... getting kids addicted to ANY drug is surely illegal as well!

WELL ->

1. As a clinical psych grad I would have to say:

He may well need help. The clothes he wears and music he listens to (and apparently makes) are indicative of a very angry, attention starved young man struggling with the backward ways of society. This could be serious.

OR

he is just another teen that's full of shit. a white kid who wants to be famous. thinks he can play guitar. thinks he knows what music is about. thinks he has had a bad life. hates everyone. no one understands him. blah blah blah.

I side with the latter :)

2. If these things DID happen, find a way to prove it... and sue for millions :)
 
Yes they did really happen. He was 17 when he was expelled. He started really being heavy into the goth stuff at age 16 or so. They didn't formally "expel" him, they just said "you can't go here anymore". They recommended he get put in the institution, where they evaluated him based mainly on reports on him that were taken by the school. He doesn't know what those reports said. He acted out in an angry fashion at doctors and such because he was being unfairly held. because of this he was admitted indeifnately. They put him on shit to calm him down and keep in him line. He got hooked on it. He probably could sue, but he won't, and I couldn't explain why. He doesn't have that kind of drive. It's all over and done with now, and he has lightened up IMMENSELY since he got out and got clean. When he first got out he joined my band, and he wrote a lot of VERY angry lyrics. It was his way of expressing and dealing with anger. He is a much happier person now, graduated high school, and is in college. He still dresses the same way, but no longer gets discriminated against for it. I can't explain it much better then that. You people don't know him, and didn't see what happened to him. I honestly don't care anymroe if you believe me or not, it doesn't matter. I'm defending myself and my friend for things that I you believe. Please don't continue this any further, I won't be posting to this thread anymore. This board isn't for arguing over how my singer's life was lived.

One last note to Musicsdarkangel: Cradle of Filth was never and never will be death metal. They are black metal, and I don't know God Forbid or Shadowsfall too well, but I don't think they are death metal either. Anything with screaming/growling and heavy guitar riffs is NOT death metal.

Jake
 
I have never read a post on this BBS with more narrowminded views, please ppl, we all know that everyone is subjected to his own taste.

Hey NationalSandwic, hello fellow countryman, hope the weather is good down there at the mo.
 
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