TLII or TLM103?

[CUSETOWN]

I'm torn.
Anyone with experience with either of these please post your honest feedback.
THANKS!

 

[Dot]

Or maybe B-ULS.

Would do you want to do here? Applications, music...Throw us a bone.

Dan Richards
Digital Pro Sound
The Listening Sessions

 

[CUSETOWN]

VOX

Its gonna be used for vocals.

 

[CUSETOWN]

& ps

I read another post with a link to your mic recommendations & found it real interesting.. You also mentioned using alot of stuff for extended periods of time.. I look forward to your 2 cents..

This mic will be purely used for vocals.. Maybe some acoustic guitar here & there.. But 99.9% vox.

Thanks for your reply!

 

[Dot]

CUSETOWN, the 414 can be tricky. It's actually a great all-purpose mic, especially for instruments. It sounds perfect on maybe 1 out of 10 vocalists - but when it works its excellent. The 414 is very clean, neutral and bright. The 414 B-ULS is one of my favorite mics for piano and acoustic guitar. The TLII is a transformerless version of the 414 with a C12 capsule.

The 103 is a good mic, but can often prove a little lackluster. It also depends on what mic pre you're using.

So, I'll ask you more questions...

What pre?

What kind of vocals, music, singers? Male, female, both? Powerful singers? OK singer who can record well under the right conditions?

Do you have a total top outside highest budget?

Would you be willing to get more than one mic if they were within your total budget?

Dan Richards
Digital Pro Sound
The Listening Sessions

 

[CUSETOWN]

thanks

Well.. My top budget is about 700-800 because I want a new preamp too.. I'm currently using a CAD E200 with a joemeek vc6q (brittish channel)..

I'm looking to upgrade the entire vocal path.. I record alot of hip hop & r&b that gets mixed in bigger studios.. Most of the major hip hop studios I've mixed in are using u87's & TLII's... A few others here & there.. But those 2 are almost always up..
They also use killer preamps way out of my budget.. But I have my eye on a trident s20.. Which is why my mic budget is what it is..


I've been noticing for the LONGEST time that the cad mic I'm using is kinda dark on alot of peoples vox.. I'm finally getting around to upgrading.

Thanks again!

& PS: I really don't want all purpose here.. Just killer vox!

 

[Dot]

Re: thanks

I record alot of hip hop & r&b that gets mixed in bigger studios.. Most of the major hip hop studios I've mixed in are using u87's & TLII's... A few others here & there.. But those 2 are almost always up.

Interesting, because that agrees with what I wrote in A step-by-step guide to building a mic cabinet.

I have seen commercial recording studios cover 95 percent of all lead vocal applications with a Neumann U87 and an AKG C414B.

And out of that I can tell you that on vocals the 87 gets used about 90% of the time and the 414 gets used about 10% of the time. It's a good quick way to work - you have the 87 up, which will at least work acceptably for most people, and the minute you get someone on the 87 who it doesn't work for, you stick 'em on a 414.

So, now to your dilemma; First of all the 103 is no 87. But still the 103 is going to work on more people's voices than the 414. Plus you've got the CAD E200 as an option if the 103 doesn't work on certain vocals.

So, I would recommend the 103. And in the 103's defense; The busiest studio guy here in town, Brian McKenzie, who I work with and who's done a lot of stuff with The Listening Sessions, has done tons of sessions for several years with a 103 as his main vocal mic. And he gets all types of music at his place, including a lot of Hip-Hop.

I think a 103 would be a good investment in your case. And if you want to get a good shockmount for it [ a Neumann EA-1 shockmount runs over $150 ], buy an MXL 990 for $69. The shockmount fits the 103 perfectly. Actually you could chuck the 990 in the trash and use the case and the shockmount for the 103. : )

Dan Richards
Digital Pro Sound
The Listening Sessions

 

[CUSETOWN]

hmmm

I was impressed to see that in your step by step guide you say that the c1 will cover most of the bases of a U87.. How can this be!?! is it better than the tlm103? I'm not trying to run in circles here.. Believe me, I would much rather tell people my main vox mic is a neuman.. lol.. But I'm starting to believe the hype around that SP C1 ! If it's compared to a U87, does that make it better then the tlm103?

 

[Beezoboy]

OK so why don't you just get the U87 then? They go for around $1000 - $1300 on ebay all the time. Get an RNP and call it a day. I don't know what your budget is, but the U87 is indeed a good mic, and best of all it is quite reputable. It also sounds good on a variety of instruments. It is dark-ish though.

The C-1 is good, and maybe similar in sound, but not as reputable by those further up the chain. For commercial reasons the U87 is the way to go.

Have you looked into Soundelux, or Lawson microphones?

Beez

 

[CUSETOWN]

..

Way out of the budget beez.. I'd love to have one.. But it wouldnt be wise in my situation.

 

[bleyrad]

are you sure it wouldn't be wise?


I think that getting a U87 could possibly be one of the wisest business decisions of any studio.
There may be better-sounding mics for less, or at least ones that will work just as well, but having the Neumann U87 in your gear list is likely to bring you more clients, enough so that you'll make the cash back rather quickly. EVERYONE knows a U87. Lots of (less knowlegable) musicians see that and instantly think about the studio, "they're serious."

 

[Henri Devill]

Look into the Shure KSM 44 or 32..The TLM103 isn't bad either but between the Shure and the TLM I prefer the Shure.The TLM was slightly "brite" where as the Shure was not..perhaps makeing it more of U87 like in its ability to take coloring{preamp/EQ} more{IMHO}..The C1 and C3's I've tried I haven't liked much,they had a congested quality to them..However the preamp I checked the out with was a Grace and it can be a little unforgiveing Good luck




Don

 

[Richard Monroe]

Second what Henri said. In your budget, for your applications, KSM44 is more versatile than a TLM103. The 414 is a *great* mic, either version, but as a main vocal mic, it's a prescription for incompatibility. The TLM 103 is a good cardioid only mic for many applications, especially in pairs, but the lack of multipolar capability and the price you pay for the Neumann logo does not make it the most cost-effective solution. I also support the idea that a used U87 at the right price would be well worth the extra expense, if you can find one that you can afford. It is easily one of the most versatile mics ever made.-Richie

 

[CUSETOWN]

THANKS for the feedback...

Thanks for all your replies, this place is a great resource!

I don't doubt that having a U87 may bring more people into a studio.. But theres no publishing in recording people.. lol.. No but honestly, Its just not really what I do.. I produce hip hop & license beats. (Bangin-Beats.com). Its nice to be able to drop vocals here for people, mixtape drops for djs & such.. But I don't want to sink a ton of money into it..

As far as versatility, the only thing that ever gets recorded in my studio is vocals & smpte. & thats not even that often. Maybe my sister in laws acoustic guitar here & there.. But shes not a deciding factor..lol..

I do appreciate the feedback though.. I thinks theres alot of knowledgable people on here!!