Tips for my new song (Billy Joel - Piano man cover)

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Piano-Hits

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Hi all,

Today I created a new song. Piano man, a cover of Billy Joel.
A month ago, I asked on this forum some tips for the song Evanescence - My Immortal (Thread) and used this tips for my new song. I'm pretty happy with the result, but I'm just a beginner, and probably you will hear some things which can be better. Can you give me some advice for this cover? What can I improve?

Soundcloud: Click
 
A few things that I noticed....

There are points where the vocal does a weird movement in the soundstage. Its as if the the voice is just right of center and suddenly shifts to the left, and then back. If it was on tape, I would say you had a dropout. It was obvious when you sing "now Paul is a real estate.." and "and he's talking with Daisy". Did you record it with two mics and move your head? That's almost what it sounds like to me.

I think things would sound better with a bit more reverb. It pretty dry to me. I like dry when it's intimate, like someone sitting on the couch with an acoustic guitar. That's a small instrument. A piano isn't a small instrument most of the time, especially if you are trying to do a grand. It usually takes a pretty decent size room.

I'm not a piano player, but something that I noticed is that you really don't seem to use the sustain pedal. That's more of a player technique than a recording technique, but it seems to be missing. We have a really good pianist at church and I've sat there watching how she works the pedals on that grand piano. Occasionally we have someone fill in, and I can tell immediately when the sub just plays the keys and not the pedals. The notes are there, but the soul is missing.
 
I like the vocal very much but I don’t like the piano at all. It’s a bit personal in the things that don’t work and please feel free to reject any of the comments. First thing is the heavy right hand, the bum-DAH DAH gets repetitive very quickly, and the abrupt stops and restarts sounds wrong. It’s also not that nice to listen to when you add a few bars between your vocals which are the critical part of the song. The bum DAH DAH is also played absolutely straight when the original has the dahs swung quite wildly in places which removes the repetitive feel. In the main, the first dah is early in Billy Joel’s original. Have you quantised it to the best? Also, the velocity of the piano seems to remain the same throughout? 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3. When the original puts emphasis on certain bests in the bar like this 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3? Also, in the original, the chords are played in the right hand with a travelling descending pattern like the left hand is playing. The voicing of your right hand leaps up and down as the chords change sort of attracting attention? In the original song the piano is very busy, but doesn’t attempt to be the front man, in yours the piano is king and a nice voice is doing bvs to it. My guess is the DAW was heavily involved in the piano production, and the actual piano sounds good but it’s got no feel.

I really like the voice, in quality but also in clarity, it’s been recorded really well.
 
Thanks for all your advice.

There are points where the vocal does a weird movement in the soundstage. Its as if the the voice is just right of center and suddenly shifts to the left, and then back. If it was on tape, I would say you had a dropout. It was obvious when you sing "now Paul is a real estate.." and "and he's talking with Daisy".
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I heard that weird movements too. This was the compressor on the master bus, so I did some changes on the compressor on the vocal and master bus.
I think things would sound better with a bit more reverb. It pretty dry to me.
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I agree, I added some extra reverb.

I'm not a piano player, but something that I noticed is that you really don't seem to use the sustain pedal.
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You're right, I didn't play this with the sustain pedal. This was my intention, otherwise, I think the song sounds too saturated.

First thing is the heavy right
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Agree, I changed the velocity of the right had.

It’s also not that nice to listen to when you add a few bars between your vocals which are the critical part of the song.
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I was doubting if these parts should be in there. I removed these parts. I think this sounds smoother to the next part of the song.

Also, the velocity of the piano seems to remain the same throughout?
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I think I over quantized. I tried to fix this as much as possible (without playing the song again). I think it's much better, but not perfect yet.

I really like the voice, in quality but also in clarity, it’s been recorded really well.
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Thanks :D

Thanks for all your advices. Below the end result. Let me know what you think about it.

 
The balance is better. Is the idea to sound like a pretend piano or a real one?

It's completely quantised - every note length, every start point - when I look at what I play, it's a mess - nothing is on a bar or beat line, and importantly with receptive rhythmic parts, it's more common to have the descending left hand bass locked to the beat, but the right hand floats. The comment made above about the sustain pedal is really, really important - it's what makes pianos sound 'correct' - so that repeated right hand bum bum needs the sustain pedal to be down, but this song will tax your right foot, because it needs a restore and repeat every chord change. If I get a chance I'll do a few versions so you can hear the differences later today.
 
I quickly played it from memory and quantised the start times only - first time through I played the bum-bum bits quite short, then second time a bit longer, and then I added the sustain pedal to the unquantised original. I don't think any two notes are the same length and none are the same velocity - I'm not a real pianist, but those short bum-bums get extended by the sustain pedal but you must release it before chord changes create discords - I nearly managed that, but not quite.
 
Rob
I
definitely think the unquantized version sounds more natural. That's where the expression comes in. If all the notes are perfectly uniform, everything feels mechanical. That's fine for a karaoke bar, but not for listening to music. which is usually the point of recording the music in the first place.
 
Years ago, when I was involved with education, loads of students put in sheet music with a mouse. Every ¼ note exactly on the bar/beat, and every ¼ note exactly the same length. On top of this every note was exactly the same velocity and I firmly believe that this is where the still repeated comment that a piece of music sounds like 'MIDI' - when MIDI has nothing to do with it - that robotic snapped and quantised and levelled stuff sounds the worst it can be. As I'm not a real pianist, you can see my timing tends to be early (or sometimes late) but it's repeatable and that I think sometimes is too loose. So having the start of every note tightened up might sometimes help - it certainly does with drums of course. The sustain pedal is a really critical part of playing the piano. you can do little shabby notes with the pedal down and it sounds totally different to playing and holding down the same note for a few beats. Some players are the opposite of me - they are ultra tight. I have a friend who was in the Royal Marines band, and their timing is incredible - BUT - when they play modern music, very few can swing - and their music sounds quantised, but that's because that is how they play. I had a search on the net and there are some truly dreadful versions of this song on the net. I can't find any good ones.
 
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Yep the piano is lacking soul, feeling emotion...a better sounding piano sample with a smidge of verb would not hurt either.
 
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