Thunderbolt vs Pcie ?

L

långben

New member
I've seen both Motu and UA have thunderbolt interfaces . What's the difference between TB and Pcie ? Is it only the speed ?
What I know there is not so many PC mobos with TB ports , or ?
I wondering wich I shall buy for my next PC build ???
PS . Is TB going to replace Firewire ? DS .
 
There aren't many PC motherboards that have Thunderbolt ports (especially if you're buying OEM), but if you're building your own audio computer from the ground up, there are enough that it won't be an issue.

I'm pretty sure Thunderbolt will eventually push out Firewire, particularly in the audio world, but it's still probably going to be awhile before that happens completely.

From what it sounds like when you say "for my next PC build," you're looking to build a new computer anyway, so I'd go the thunderbolt route personally.
 
långben said:
What's the difference between TB and Pcie ? Is it only the speed ?
PS . Is TB going to replace Firewire ? DS .
Click to expand...

The speed of electricity stays the same.
The difference is CAPACITY. It has 12x the bandwidth of firewire800 (about 100x more than usb2) so it can carry a huge number of simultaneous channels plus monitor video, hook up hard drives and other stuff all at the same time.

You can use firewire on tbolt using a simple $30 adapter from Apple (I do) or a tbolt hub (which gives you extra video, usb3 and firewire ports too.)

If everyone sees the advantages, yes, it'll toast firewire on motherboards.
 
Yes , I'm going to build a DAW PC .
I found both Asus and Gigabyte have mobos with TB ports . For ex Gigabyte GA-Z87X-UD7 TH and Asus Z87 DELUXE/ DUAL .
Wich is best for a DAW machine ?
I have only experience of Asus , wich has been good for several years .
 
I did not say I have a thunderbolt hub, I said you can use one.
I do have an Apple Thunderbolt>Firewire adapter and run one of my Glyph drives on it with no problems.

I am looking at them now to expand my thunderbolt chain, but I'm waiting for the price to come down a bit before I buy one.

Sorry to hear you've had problems with usb hubs, I have a powered one from Rosewill and it works just fine.
 
As a general rule, the further away you get from the USB controller, the more issues seems to arise from the hub in regards to performance. A good example I had given previously, I had a USB turntable hooked up to my desktop, to the front connectors. I had issues, the tech support guy told me to hook it up to the MB connectors, I made a fuss as I'm thinking, WTH. Changed them to the rear MB connectors, never had a problem afterwards.

From that point forward, if I need performance, I try to stay as close to the MB as possible, items like a mouse, data transfer (I'm not talking data capture) non performance critical connections, I would use a hub and not think twice about it. For audio devices that require "real time" data transfer, I would not recommend it.

Firewire/TB I don't know. I would think the same rules apply, but since I have not researched it and have no first hand experience with it, I wouldn't say.

I will be honest, until this post, I didn't even know you could get TB on a non-Apple product. So I have learned something new. Not many out there, but there are some.
 
Thank you all for advices .
In general , which mobos is best for a DAW PC , Asus , Gigabyte etc ???
I have an Asus but never tried any other brand .
I only gonna use my new build for DAW use ( electronic music ) so I was first thinking of an lga 2011, but what I've read TB is only on lga 1150 .
Whats you experience of mobo brands like Asus ,Gigabyte etc ?
 
TimOBrien said:
You can use firewire on tbolt using a simple $30 adapter from Apple (I do) or a tbolt hub (which gives you extra video, usb3 and firewire ports too.)

If everyone sees the advantages, yes, it'll toast firewire on motherboards.
Click to expand...

...and that's the elephant in the room: USB3. It remains to be seen which system will be the winner in commercial terms but, if only because of cost, my money would be on USB3.

HERE'S a good comparison of the two systems.

It's a rotten time to be speccing a new system because the market hasn't settled down yet.
 
Asking in general about mb's is like asking should I drive a Ford or a Chevy. There are good in both, but without a budget, you are just getting speculation and arguments.
Both have excellent reputation, and I have one of each in the house. I would say, of the two, the Gigabyte is more stable, all things considered, but it was a $159 MB, vs the $69 Asus cheapo, so you get what you pay for.
If you're serious about building your DAW machine, look into the GA-Z77 (only $100) with a fast i5 and some HyperX Beast (or other fast) memory. If you need TB over firewire or USB 3.0 you'll pay the premium. The Lynx PC card is around $600 and cheap versions still run around $400. AND I didn't quite understand this part of your question, as the card will plug INTO your PCIe slot on the mb. If you're using SATA 3 w/6.0 GB data xfer rate, and install adequate internal drives, your standard firewire interface works very well. MOTU is well known to support mac first in its products, so the TB interface on their new stuff doesn't surprise me, as TB is mac.
Anyway, if you're building and want TB, maybe you should consider making an i5 hackintosh. Others here can advise you on that process.
 
BTW, TB is faster than USB 3.0, but there are (as stated in the original post, some audio interfaces emerging with TB and as yet I have not seen one for 3.0). The point is, firewire 800 has an 800Mbps bandwidth as opposed to 480 for USB 2.0. USB 3.0 is 5Gbps, vs 6Gbps for TB (not sure if that's TB or TB 2) but as I said, there's no interfaces I've seen for 3.0.
Now, if someone can give us some perspective by giving the bandwidth necessary for say, one track at 96k 24 bit, so we know what these bandwidths are worth to recording...
 
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BroKen_H said:
BTW, TB is faster than USB 3.0, but there are (as stated in the original post, some audio interfaces emerging with TB and as yet I have not seen one for 3.0). The point is, firewire 800 has an 800Mbps bandwidth as opposed to 480 for USB 2.0. USB 3.0 is 5Gbps, vs 6Gbps for TB (not sure if that's TB or TB 2) but as I said, there's no interfaces I've seen for 3.0.
Now, if someone can give us some perspective by giving the bandwidth necessary for say, one track at 96k 24 bit, so we know what these bandwidths are worth to recording...
Click to expand...

RME (Arguably the best interface manufacturer in the world) announced the MADIface XT USB3 interface at Musikmesse Frankfurt in 2013.

Don't be blinded by pure speeds (and have a read of that comparison link I posted). A lot of the performance is down to the implementation and drivers of ANY form of interface--and there are a lot of truly crap drivers out there. On a pure bandwidth basis, I doubt there are more than a handful of HR members who need any more than USB2.

Which will win (or will something we've never heard of win?)? I dunno. It's going to be interesting to watch the competition--I still have my money on USB3 for the backwards compatibility with previous versions of USB. However, I'm glad I'm not buying a new interface (or computer) just now. It would be awfully easy to go up a technical blind alley.
 
Also, to be sure, bandwidth rating is not USABLE bandwidth. so 5Gbps CAN outperform 6Gbps. So, really, it's just a matter of how much do you need, what are your personal prefs, and how much are you willing to spend?
 
And my supposition that 5 or 6 is unimportant if you can fit 40 96/24 tracks through 800Mbps. I don't have that data.
My quick calculation is that each track would take about 2Mbps, so there's no problem with recording audio. Gives you plenty of room on a standard firewire for 40 tracks and more than 700Mbps for headroom
 
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BroKen_H said:
Asking in general about mb's is like asking should I drive a Ford or a Chevy. There are good in both, but without a budget, you are just getting speculation and arguments.
Both have excellent reputation, and I have one of each in the house. I would say, of the two, the Gigabyte is more stable, all things considered, but it was a $159 MB, vs the $69 Asus cheapo, so you get what you pay for.
If you're serious about building your DAW machine, look into the GA-Z77 (only $100) with a fast i5 and some HyperX Beast (or other fast) memory. If you need TB over firewire or USB 3.0 you'll pay the premium. The Lynx PC card is around $600 and cheap versions still run around $400. AND I didn't quite understand this part of your question, as the card will plug INTO your PCIe slot on the mb. If you're using SATA 3 w/6.0 GB data xfer rate, and install adequate internal drives, your standard firewire interface works very well. MOTU is well known to support mac first in its products, so the TB interface on their new stuff doesn't surprise me, as TB is mac.
Anyway, if you're building and want TB, maybe you should consider making an i5 hackintosh. Others here can advise you on that process.
Click to expand...

Why z77 and not z87 ?
I need at least 32 GB Ram and a fast i7 since I use tons of vsti and vst fx .
After reading about TB I think I go for a pcie interface like Lynx or RME , though I will have place for my Mytek ad/da converter and a micpreamp .
 
Money is not a problem . I want a stable mobo with good pcie slots and good usb3 ports .( usb 3 sucks on my old Asus Z68 ) .
 
Good! I like you already. I gave you my rundown of what would work for my situation. You researched and modified it to fit your need. The z87 is a fine mb. Most who come here are budget minded, so I gave you a good MB for a reasonable price. The are you talking about the oc force version or one of the UD's. The UD7 TH is an amazing board with dual TB ports built in.
 
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