Thrash/Melodic BM Metal Tune, need opinions on mix direction

M

Mistral

RyosaMusic
Alright.. this one doesn't have bass or vocals yet, and I'm waiting to get a solo done but I'd like to know what some other people think as far as the direction of the mix so far. Most likely it's gonna be fully remixed after, but I always like to try to get things approximated as much as possible so I can visualize where I'm going with it at each step.

It may be difficult to tell without bass, but does it feel too thin? What of the drum sound?

During the synth part there will be a nice chugging bassline underneath it.

I haven't 100% finished the drums, as far as adding fills and working on the velocities to make it more convincing in spots, but I don't think it's too bad so far.

I will tell you exactly what everything is done with once I've received some critique. Always nice to leave it as a surprise.

Here ya go, in nice full 320kbps quality.

 
sounds really overcompressed overall, but the tune thus far is good, i like the guitar parts, and the tones are really nice. lovin the use of synths.
 
Overcompressed.. hmm.. Thing is, I don't really use much compression. a Tape Saturation plugin on the rhythms, and then ME Loudness Maximizer (at a rather reasonable setting).. that may have smushed it a tad too much.
Also I might need to tone down the drum compression. Thanks for the listen, I will try to give it a bit more room to breathe in the final mix/master.
 
okay cool, something I can actually relate to.

I really like this, and I'm gonna set my disdain for programmed drums aside because I don't feel like having that come up every damn time someone posts something like this, because my drums and recording gear cost around 4000 dollars, and not everyone can be doing that.

I really like your guitar sound, but there seems to be some weird issues of compression just before the blast beat part in the middle, which will be a problem when it comes to adding the bass (which i hope to god you don't mix below human audibility range) and vocals. Something I noted, however, is that your drums are pretty high in that mix, and getting them a little more scaled down to where the guitars sit might be beneficial... But I also understand the feel of this tune, as a fan of power metal like this myself. Sshoot man power metal is what got me playing guitar!!!

The sounds of the drums may be throwing me off, there, though so if you experiment, something else might come up. The only other thing I might say drum wise is about the cymbal (mainly hi hat) setup... it's sort of overpowering the tone of the guitar, and thats really the first negative thing I noticed in the song according to taste. You see, I LOVE thrash riding on a very open hat, so I have had quite a bit of experience messing with bleed problems and overpowering other stuff in the mix, but since this is
(I'm assuming) programmed, if you just roll off some (not all...) of those really shiny high frequencies in that hat, stuff would be pretty balanced I feel, maybe taking he overall level down a hair, too. The ride I hear is fine, in contrast though. I don't think a huge change in the hats would be necessary, just something to make them seem less "in your face"... what i'm talking about is pretty apparent in the beginning, but ESPECIALLY at the blast beat. I think after a few listens, I like where I hear the bass drum, level wise.

I have NO complaints in your use of synth and piano, totally love it, especially the piano parts. I'd love to hear a solo in here...

other than that I got nothin. Just listen to some Sonata Arctica, or maybe some Blind Guardian as reference. which makes me wonder whom you style after in this case. I also would listen to just a little Iced Earth or subsequently Demons and Wizards if I wanted a REALLY clean mix, because god I love theirs.



Ooooops - Super f***in edit - I gotta say something about what I said abou the cymbals -
In my current project I'm having ABOUT the same problem with the crash ride that is used throughout the mixes! I'm going to keep you in mind because there is something very specific I intend to acheive with it once I get my soundcard/mixer back in the next week or two. my problem has a lot to do with what frequencies I am cutting and boosting in my overhead mix/whatever else. It's actually a sweet spot or combination of several that I have not figured out quite yet, I'll let you know. gotta make friends with the metal guys, here. check out a few of my mixes at this myspace
 
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Well hey. I really appreciate your detailed response and you know what, we share common tastes.

I guess I sort of let nostalgia get in the way of my sensibilities in this case, I mean I know where you are coming from because I really love nice clean and punchy mixes.. and I kept getting this At The Gates meets I don't know, say.. Stormblast era Dimmu Borgir vibe, and it almost started to suit me being a little bit dirty, but of course you're 100% right.. My friend who is also, off and on, my bandmate although we've been in seperate countries for some years now, anyway he is also a drummer and so I've received exactly the same criticisms from him about the blast beat part therefore I trust your opinion on it.

I bought a set of Yamaha DTXplorers recently but for songs like this that require faster metal drums, yes I do program but right now it's still kind of being fleshed out, I start with some basic beats and humanize it more later on. I should probably do as you suggested as well and compare the levels with some albums. BG Sonata etc are all great bands and I definitely take influence from them but this is probably going to be closer to Eternal Tears of Sorrow, Kalmah, At The Gates, Amon Amarth with a dash of old Dimmu (the pianos).. the synth part is inspired by Arjen Anthony Lucassen's space metal. So as you can see I have quite a wide set of influences. Just the tip of the iceberg really.

I am rather pleased that people like the guitar tone, I guess I have a knack for making the most out of the shittiest gear then and that really inspires me for one day starting up a studio. The guitar is a shitty Fender knockoff with single coil pickups (on a bit of a budget for now), so I spent a lot of time slaving over Guitar Rig 2 to get a convincing tone. Then I fattened the guitar sound up further with Ozone 3's tape saturation preset. So that paid off.

I think I am gonna get to work adding the bass and after that I will start remixing it and getting things closer to final levels and I'll repost the tune..

Thanks a lot.
 
P.S. just had to add that I love audible bass mixes.. also a pet peeve of mine when they are mixed too low and without a nice definition.. so no worries there.
 
oh okay see now it sorta makes more sense to me, where you are going with your influence. I need to get into to those bands more, though I have been listening to dimmu since forever...

Yeah interestingly enough though single coils can sound pretty BA when you do it right, I was watching the Adler bros. from lamb of god (not power metal, but what the heck) do something at a convention with "now you've got something to die for" and he was using a strat I believe for THEIR tone which seemed unlikely to me. and it was a pretty undoctored live deal, so. yeah wow trust me even though I have some pretty wicked gear IMO I've had to make the most out of ghetto ass stuff and wow people with non-wowing produts... totally empathize.

Do you have a song where something similar to what you did with guitars is on it's own? I'd like to hear something similar soloed because this one, being mixed to sound good with the guitars, is a little hard to evaluate, so point me out.
 
Hmm I dunno I am constantly revising my settings but I've made presets for the tones I've got going on that song..

On my MySpace page there is a tune (last one - A Life Accursed) that uses the same guitar, as well as Guitar Rig 2, although the settings are not the same it's about the closest I've got.

Genrewise the song is pretty different though and I don't know exactly what you're listening for..
 
Likee.

Not a bad tune! Really like the second part, which also ends the song, there must be a difficult chordchange in the middle?.. same chord is always a microsecond "late"?.. ;)

I really liked the guitarparts, I'm not that much into synths, those sounded a bit "paradise lost"-like to me... :o

What comes to guitars and drums I wouldnt change nuttin', but MY mixes are horrible... :D

The beginning, and this is common to all bands where hideous speed is used, sounds full, even crammed... I've been wondering how you could get more "headroom" or "space" in those.. I personally palm-mute those fast-picked parts, helps a little but not enough imho.

Nice song all and all!!
 
Kiitos Jouni, actually good ear. The reason the same chord sounds delayed everytime (although I don't hear which particular chord you're talking about here) is because some of it is just scratch guitars at the moment so a couple of parts are looped, it will be easy for me to punch in and re-record some parts later to add some more flair to the playing perhaps.
 
Jouni said:
I've been wondering how you could get more "headroom" or "space" in those.. I personally palm-mute those fast-picked parts, helps a little but not enough imho.
Click to expand...

A few keys for doing that kind of thing is keeping your drums really punctuated, for say a blast beat or 16th+ note onslaught, and be really careful how you are compressing them or grouping them. You also have to get rid of any unwanted "spectral jam" as I call it, or when you have too much inaudible or barely audible low and/or high frequencies in your mix of whatever, guitars drums or everything. making certain cuts and experimenting with boosting one thing on your eq's or whatever effects helps, but you have to keep in mindone thing will affect another, but we all have a little ear for that I hope, in this community heh. :D lately I've been leaving in too much lows in my stuff, and I'm going to start expermenting on that whole headroom issue and posting what happens. but the whole fast everything factor is really a matter of punctuating the length in which your notes are played, drums r otherwise. palm muting on the guitar chugging or picking or whatever doesn't always help, because the low end carries out a lot of the time for a while until the next note starts, and might even be worse than if you were not... maybe theres an innovation in removing a sweet spot somewhere so it doesn't do that.... oh well not gonna ramble about that.

But if you meant in a musical kind of way, thats all up to the artist in my opinion, whatever you want to express.

and totally good ear, man I didn't even notice that off timing at all.
 
For some odd reason the song reminds me of Amon Amarth, even though it doesn't sound like them to much, haha (not a bad thing, that band rules). I'm listening to it on laptop speakers right now so I can't give too great of advice on the recording, but the song itself is pretty sweet, I like the piano in it, pretty awesome. =]

Peace!
 
Yeah I think it's that second riff progression that has an Amon Amarth feel. As I said, lots of influences there.

Thanks guys.. Sleepy time here. L8r!
 
What the feck.. can you not edit your own posts after a certain amount of time or something?

Here is the updated version, still no vocals yet but I added bass and a solo and the mix is closer to where I want it to be.



I should note that this song STARTED as more of a melodic BM type thing. However the more I played with it the more it evolved into something else. I could really picture parts of it with someone really talented singing some prog style vocals, unfortunately I know noone and my own skills aren't so great. :/ But I will do what I can with it.
 
Hells yeah! That's a great song man, I'm really like the guitars, they sound great and the song is well structured, nice bass work too!
 
I'm working on lyrics for it, but I haven't recorded any as of yet. My friend who is a drummer is available this week to do some recording so I am taking advantage of that and trying to get enough material for a full cd put together. Once I have most of the music structured out I will probably go back and do more on it lyrically.
 
Mistral said:
(although I don't hear which particular chord you're talking about here)
Click to expand...

I had another listen myself, and I COULD, really could, be wrong. The chord that steps in at 0:44 just hits in slightly "constipatedly" to me.. :confused:
Sort of hits the brakes on the "flow".. Shit, I could be getting old, I am. :(
 
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